Open Jan200101 opened 11 months ago
It seems mod.io doesn't want us as per @EM4Volts
Hi
@4V
, we only support official integrations with studios and publishers, rather than unofficial mod communities. You could try moddb.com or gamefront.com as alternative sites we are affiliated with that do support such communities.
https://discord.com/channels/920776187884732556/942391932137668618/1139518734755709058
Overall, I'm not opposed to switching mod platform but a proper argument needs to be made as it would basically require both yet another overhaul of the mod system in Northstar, an update to all existing mod managers, and deprecation of 1.5 years of documentation. All of that is a lot of overhead that requires a solid argument to be made for switching or enabling additional platforms.
I highly suggest looking into all alternative platforms to Thunderstore and compiling a list of their pros and cons, especially in the context of Northstar. If there's one that sticks out we could then look into how to integrate it into Northstar (assuming the platform is willing to take us).
(was gonna post this but you got ahead of me) Mod.io also supports other projects that have to modify the game to support external contents.
I'll see if I can get in contact with someone to get a stance on this.
my 50 cents on this here:
first of all to adress something said already i quote you @GeckoEidechse
Overall, I'm not opposed to switching mod platform but a proper argument needs to be made as it would basically require both yet another overhaul of the mod system in Northstar, an update to all existing mod managers, and deprecation of 1.5 years of documentation.
yes, mod managers would need an overhaul but there is essentially already a mod format in form of the way we have:
Extra to my previous comment: the way malicious mods are currently handled (pinging gecko, gecko telling the admins, the admins deleting it in about 30 years) is not a way anything should be handled
yes, mod managers would need an overhaul but there is essentially already a mod format in form of the way we have:
> folder shitt and mod.json
Keep in mind that for auto-updating with Thunderstore or any platform we still have to keep a mapping from that Northstar mod format to the mod on the external platform. Also there's also the fact that author.mod
is not enforced in any ways and a lot of mods don't adhere to it at all, e.g. https://thunderstore.io/package/download/Creamy_jpg/Customisable_Reticles_Framework/1.3.6/ (4th most downloaded mod on Northstar Thunderstore).
Then there's also the fact that rn all user facing tutorials explain how to download things from Thunderstore, that what I meant also needs updating.
I fully agree with the points made in the above btw. So I suggest looking into alternatives and seeing whether the feature set they offer would be worth switching to them.
My main point is that switching mod platform inherently is a lot of work as it will require updating all parts of Northstar. It's certainly not something you can do quickly on a rainy Friday night.
Hence step one would be exploring all viable alternatives and seeing whether they offer what we would need/want. We cannot afford attempting to switch just to find out that something crucial is missing.
Also re:
the way malicious mods are currently handled (pinging gecko, gecko telling the admins, the admins deleting it in about 30 years) is not a way anything should be handled
Just to be clear, I'm not the only person that can ping them. @H0L0theBard already did way before me. We're still awaiting response though. They got removed now after reaching out via their support channel.
yes, mod managers would need an overhaul but there is essentially already a mod format in form of the way we have:
> folder shitt and mod.json Keep in mind that for auto-updating with Thunderstore or any platform we still have to keep a mapping from that Northstar mod format to the mod on the external platform. Also there's also the fact that
author.mod
is not enforced in any ways and a lot of mods don't adhere to it at all.
yes i know, the autor.mod line was just an example for a folder name.
What is the benefit of splitting up mods on yet another platform
Benefits:
Also tf you mean "yet another" :raised_eyebrow:
- possible better in-game integration
Can also be done with Thunderstore and we kinda started the process for that with https://github.com/R2Northstar/NorthstarLauncher/pull/503 and #472
(other points are very valid ofc)
Can also be done with Thunderstore
Thunderstores packaging structure does not lend itself to it, also I said better :no_mouth:
Thunderstores packaging structure does not lend itself to it, also I said better no_mouth
Thunderstore packaging structure is undefined and specified by community. We just pinky-swear agreed to do mods/
and plugins/
subdirs to support integration with existing Northstar mods. So this can be easily changed without requiring any changes on Thunderstore side, only on Northstar side. The only thing that would need change is r2mm which we don't recommend using anyway.
not having to deal with Thunderstores poor packaging system
It's really not that bad
possibility for better moderation
they're working on it
better community integration (comments, etc.)
they're working on it
possible better in-game integration
???
Also tf you mean "yet another" 🤨
there are:
- nexusmods - for some reason
Just to be clear, I have no idea who set up nexusmods and I wouldn't count it as an "officially supported" resource. I'd be more than happy to get rid of Discord channels but last time I tried the vote was in favour of keeping them. (The Discord channel part is a separate discussion anyway though)
Still, there is no point in having multiple "officially supported" mod stores, because I can guarantee that not everyone is going to upload to both of them. And having two different standards is never a good idea
i just talked to mythic, an admin of thunderstore via dm on discord and according to him both a better UI and proper on community basis moderation are in the works, moderation being actually not far away.
i wanted to make a good list comparing multiple mod sites but abandoned the idea after looking at alternatives now,
as i stand the only real alternatives would be either mod.io (which doesnt want us, dont know if @Jan200101 has contacted them yet as he wanted to) and nexusmods (which is trash for account reasons and api shit)
thunderstore, if they keep their promises as in -better ui -community moderation
are on a good way to becoming the best plattform for it themselves.
Got in contact with mod.io and they re-confirmed that unofficial modding support in any capacity is unsupported by mod.io and they are only intending to work with official products.
I've also asked how another game is on mod.io, which is just a decompile of a game with custom content support slapped on, and may have gotten it into trouble. Woops.
Either way, alternatives to mod.io that I see are:
nexus has been hostile towards modders for a while and moddb is rather lackluster for what we want.
So thunderstore continues being our best solution. Once Thunderstore receives their UI overhaul we could consider contributing to it to implement what we want (e.g. improving the manual mod uploading process).
Since we've established that there are no other mod stores that we can reasonable support, this will be closed.
reopening this, ive just spoken to someone from the team of https://modworkshop.net
Mod workshop.net is a modding website that has a nice modern design and basically all features one could want for a modding community. it has proper rules for uploads and allows for moderation by apointed mods of a community.
it has an api https://api.modworkshop.net/ but from what i heard it sadly doesnt allow for circumventing the need to go onto the page itself (which imo isnt a big issue as managers could propably also just add an way to just drag the downloaded zip into the manager), the api allows for updating existing mods tho
the people of their team told me "Hi, 3rd party frameworks are perfectly fine (Payday 2's mod loader is basically the same thing) as long as they don't actively go against the rules (ours as well as the developers of the game)."
so n* would be allowed with them.
i also have a ticket open on their discord, if anyone wants to question them about something directly join their discord linked on their page and tell me, i can add you to the ticket
With this issue I propose supporting mod.io as an alternative to the thunderstore.