search

RPi-Distro / repo

Issue tracking for the archive.raspberrypi.org repo
37 stars 1 forks source link

What must be added to the Lite distro to make Bluetooth work? #369

Closed seamusdemora closed 2 months ago

seamusdemora commented 3 months ago

I go through this occasionally, and it always takes way, way too much time... I'm talking about trying to get Bluetooth working on the Lite distro. The Desktop//"Everything" distros seem to have what's required to make Bluetooth functional. I started earlier today trying to get Bluetooth working on bookworm Lite, and running into the usual roadblocks/lack of information.

I'd really like to see a "Lite+" distro that included Bluetooth - OR - something in the documentation that explains roughly what must be done. Things like "add user pi to bluetooth group", "install pulseaudio (or is it pipewire this time around?)", "set config file XYZ to ABC", etc.

Is this something that could be considered??

XECDesign commented 3 months ago

When you say bluetooth, are you specifically referring to bluetooth audio devices? AFAIK, things like keyboards and mice should already just work.

For audio, installing pipewire would be the simplest option. I would recommend opening an issue in the documentation repo.

seamusdemora commented 3 months ago

Not necessarily limited to audio (though that one has vexed me for years), but also for Pi-to-Pi and Pi-to-Device data transfer. Does that (data transfer) 'just work' also? Frankly, I've never tried a keyboard or mouse with a Lite system - I can't actually see the point in my use case, but good to hear that it's available for others.

WRT opening an issue in the documentation repo: I can do that, but is there some way this issue could be "transferred" over there?

XECDesign commented 3 months ago

I don't have much experience with bluetooth file transfer, but yeah, I think that's another thing that would require something like bt-obex from bluez-tools installed.

Unfortunately I can't transfer the issue, since github doesn't allow that across organisations.

ghollingworth commented 3 months ago

No, that is on the raspberrypi organisation so we can't transfer it there...

Please close this one and open a new one

seamusdemora commented 3 months ago

@ghollingworth : OK - I'll close it, but I have a question re your reply: "the raspberrypi organisation" ???

I thought all of this was on "the raspberrypi organisation"? What other organisation is there?

lurch commented 3 months ago

I thought all of this was on "the raspberrypi organisation"? What other organisation is there?

The "organisation" in this case is the first part of the URL after github.com; so the https://github.com/RPi-Distro/repo repository is in the RPi-Distro organisation (for historical reasons) and the https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation repository is in the raspberrypi organisation. See https://raspberrypi.github.io/

seamusdemora commented 3 months ago

@lurch : thanks for that.

FWIW: the documentation team has denied responsibility for this. So disappointing. Why does RPi even bother to include BT in the hardware if it's not going to be supported in software and documentation? ... that's an "honest" and "earnest" question.

JamesH65 commented 3 months ago

Do you have a set of instructions for Bookworm Lite to make Bluetooth work, or is that that what you are asking for? It might be a topic we can do a whitepaper for, but at present I do not have time to investigate what is needed but I would have time to write up provided instructions.

popcornmix commented 3 months ago

@seamusdemora asked to document how to make bluetooth work on bullseye Lite. That, understandably was rejected, as bullseye is a no longer supported OS.

A request to document how to make bluetooth work on bookworm Lite might get a more positive response.

JamesH65 commented 3 months ago

I wish Debian had been a little more ambitious with their naming, three OS releases in a row with the same first letter was a terrible idea.

But I'd be happy to write up how to do it on Bookworm as a whitepaper. If I know how its done.

seamusdemora commented 3 months ago

@JamesH65 : I wish I could help you there... But I think this is an excellent idea, and I hope you follow through with it! Please let me know when that whitepaper is available.

P.S. Agree completely w/ buster - bullseye - bookworm I get them confused frequently.

seamusdemora commented 3 months ago

@seamusdemora asked to document how to make bluetooth work on bullseye Lite. That, understandably was rejected, as bullseye is a no longer supported OS.

A request to document how to make bluetooth work on bookworm Lite might get a more positive response.

@popcornmix : Somehow I doubt that would have been the case. She didn't offer bookworm documentation - she said... well, you read it, but yes - bookworm documentation would have been great! Has Alistair left the documentation organization?

aallan commented 3 months ago

@popcornmix : Somehow I doubt that would have been the case. She didn't offer bookworm documentation - she said... well, you read it, but yes - bookworm documentation would have been great! Has Alistair left the documentation organization

No, I'm still around. But as Liz said, we're a small team, and it was a pretty niche request. It's unlikely to be something we'll get around to any time soon.

Also you understand that @LizUpton is my boss, right? 🤔

MichaIng commented 2 months ago

I wish Debian had been a little more ambitious with their naming, three OS releases in a row with the same first letter was a terrible idea.

Absolutely. Luckily, next is Debian Trixie 😄.

For Bluetooth audio with plain ALSA on Bookworm:

apt install bluez-alsa-utils

/etc/alsa/conf.d/20-bluealsa.conf defines/configures the ALSA PCM. To set it as default system-wide:

echo -e 'pcm.!default bluealsa\nctl.!default bluealsa' | sudo tee /etc/asound.conf

or for the current user:

echo -e 'pcm.!default bluealsa\nctl.!default bluealsa' > ~/.asoundrc

So since Bookworm, I wouldn't say that using PipeWire makes it easier, when using RPi OS Lite.

In case PipeWire is used:

apt install libspa-0.2-bluetooth

For PulseAudio:

apt install pulseaudio-module-bluetooth

But I am not sure whether the PW/PA modules need to be additionally configured, or whether it works OOTB.

Not sure about raw file transfer either. As far as I understand, the Bluetooth device must provide a known connection profile, for the host to know what to do. For this to be known/available for audio devices, a BlueALSA, PA or PW instance (with BT plugin) must be running. I would assume that it works OOTB for BT storage devices, same as like for input devices. But I never tested it on Linux.

EDIT: Btw, up to Bullseye, the RPi APT repository even provides an own BlueALSA package: https://archive.raspberrypi.org/debian/pool/main/b/bluealsa/ So e.g. on RPi OS Lite Bullseye, it would be:

apt install bluealsa

which is pretty much identical to bluez-alsa-utils from Bookworm on, hence same ALSA config etc.

seamusdemora commented 2 months ago

@popcornmix : Somehow I doubt that would have been the case. She didn't offer bookworm documentation - she said... well, you read it, but yes - bookworm documentation would have been great! Has Alistair left the documentation organization

No, I'm still around. But as Liz said, we're a small team, and it was a pretty niche request. It's unlikely to be something we'll get around to any time soon.

Also you understand that @LizUpton is my boss, right? 🤔

Glad you're still with us :) I struggle understanding how this is a niche request. There is nothing in the documentation (certainly not for Lite users) on making Bluetooth work. And BT is kinda' mainstream tech - or at least I thought it was?

But that's too bad - I am disappointed that no Bluetooth documentation is forthcoming.

And I didn't know she was your boss - but will stand by my "parting shot" in the other thread.

seamusdemora commented 2 months ago

@seamusdemora asked to document how to make bluetooth work on bullseye Lite. That, understandably was rejected, as bullseye is a no longer supported OS.

A request to document how to make bluetooth work on bookworm Lite might get a more positive response. @popcornmix :

As we can now plainly see - bookworm did not get a more positive response.

Also curious re yr statement that "bullseye is a no longer supported OS": I still get the occasional update through apt... where does this come from if it's not supported?

lurch commented 2 months ago

Bullseye is now our "Legacy OS" and so still gets security updates, but no further support beyond that. See https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/new-old-functionality-with-raspberry-pi-os-legacy/

aallan commented 2 months ago

I struggle understanding how this is a niche request. There is nothing in the documentation (certainly not for Lite users) on making Bluetooth work. And BT is kinda' mainstream tech - or at least I thought it was?

On Lite? Its niche. If I'm going to prioritise documentation around Lite it'll be more command-line management of the new Network Manager stack — which is poorly documented everywhere (not just on our site) — and is most definitely not niche.

More on Bluetooth is on the list for our tutorials site but adding more content there isn't right at the top of our to do list right now. Too much other stuff going on. Sorry.

seamusdemora commented 2 months ago

@lurch

Bullseye is now our "Legacy OS" and so still gets security updates, but no further support beyond that. See https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/new-old-functionality-with-raspberry-pi-os-legacy/

If Bullseye is legacy, why is it the only choice given for an OS to install (using Raspberry Pi Imager) on Raspberry Pi 3A+ ?

This was a big surprise for me... it's almost as if... well, I won't say it, but why is this the case? Why isn't the RPi3A+ supported on bookworm?

seamusdemora commented 2 months ago

I struggle understanding how this is a niche request. There is nothing in the documentation (certainly not for Lite users) on making Bluetooth work. And BT is kinda' mainstream tech - or at least I thought it was?

On Lite? Its niche. If I'm going to prioritise documentation around Lite it'll be more command-line management of the new Network Manager stack — which is poorly documented everywhere (not just on our site) — and is most definitely not niche.

More on Bluetooth is on the list for our tutorials site but adding more content there isn't right at the top of our to do list right now. Too much other stuff going on. Sorry.

Oh, so it is 'Lite' that's "niche" - not Bluetooth? But surely there's much overlap... and there's certainly lots of precedent for documenting a "GUI" way and a "CLI way" of doing things (often the "CLI way" is much easier/faster!).

Yes - I spend some time on "Stack Exchange", and there's been some confusion re nmcli vs dhcpcd... but then there was lots of confusion on dhcpcd before nmcli came around. Seems to me there are a lot of folks who just won't read the (usually very good) manuals/man pages, and lots of people who have no clue re how their network actually works - which can't be fixed w/ man pages alone.... But back to the point: There has been lots written/documented on nmcli both at RPi and many other places. Bluetooth OTOH seems to get almost nothing... the current documentation at RPi amounts to a few screenshots showing someone "clicking icons"... that's not what I'd call documentation. I think you'll agree on that point at least.

seamusdemora commented 2 months ago

In an effort to make my point re the need for Bluetooth documentation:

I just installed (and immediately updated & upgraded) a 64-bit version of RPi's bookworm Lite on my new-ish RPi 3A+. This is as close to pristine as one can get. I entered the following command: 

pi@rpi3a:~ $ systemctl status bluetooth.service
● bluetooth.service - Bluetooth service
     Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.service; enabled; preset: enabled)
     Active: active (running) since Wed 2024-04-10 22:48:45 UTC; 15min ago
       Docs: man:bluetoothd(8)
   Main PID: 599 (bluetoothd)
     Status: "Running"
      Tasks: 1 (limit: 380)
        CPU: 176ms
     CGroup: /system.slice/bluetooth.service
             └─599 /usr/libexec/bluetooth/bluetoothd

Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: src/plugin.c:plugin_init() Failed to init vcp plugin
Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: profiles/audio/mcp.c:mcp_init() D-Bus experimental not enabled
Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: src/plugin.c:plugin_init() Failed to init mcp plugin
Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: profiles/audio/bap.c:bap_init() D-Bus experimental not enabled
Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: src/plugin.c:plugin_init() Failed to init bap plugin
Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: Bluetooth management interface 1.22 initialized
Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: profiles/sap/server.c:sap_server_register() Sap driver initialization failed.
Apr 10 22:48:45 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: sap-server: Operation not permitted (1)
Apr 10 22:48:46 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: Failed to set privacy: Rejected (0x0b)
Apr 10 22:48:50 rpi3a bluetoothd[599]: src/adv_monitor.c:btd_adv_monitor_power_down() Unexpected NULL btd_adv_monitor_manager object upon power down

9 of the 10 lines in the "diagnostic" section of this report fm systemd are highlighted in yellow or orange in my terminal; i.e. "problems/issues". My Bluetooth will not work with all of this. A bit of documentation would be a big help here. A bit of pre-release configuration would also be a big help. But all that seems not to matter here - nobody wants to take any responsibility for this. After many years, no one has even bothered to add the default user to the bluetooth group; has someone in your organization decided that Bluetooth is not going to be supported in the 'Lite' distro?

For the life of me - I do not understand this attitude... can someone explain? If the 'Lite' distro is not to be maintained, why even have a 'Lite' distro?

seamusdemora commented 2 months ago

I've done a survey of all the bluetooth, alsa, audio apps that came in the bookworm Lite distro I installed earlier today:

I'll guess that this means someone thinks that Bluetooth audio can be made to work using bluez and alsa. I'd really appreciate it if someone could spend a few minutes, and search for some kind of documentation that explains where to start with alsa and bluez. I looked for hours, and found nothing but chaos. For example:

The Debian page on Alsa is informative. Among other things, it states:

Configuration: You can find ALSA configuration files in the /etc/alsa/conf.d/ directory. A lot of files are already included here by default. Advanced features such as mixing should already be configured with sane defaults. If you want to make changes, add a new file in here.

But on my bookworm Lite system:

$ ls -l /etc/alsa
ls: cannot access '/etc/alsa': No such file or directory

My goodness... what is going on here? What is a user to do?? And of course this is just one example of the chaos & absenteeism... who put this release together?

lurch commented 2 months ago

If Bullseye is legacy, why is it the only choice given for an OS to install (using Raspberry Pi Imager) on Raspberry Pi 3A+ ?

See e.g. https://github.com/raspberrypi/rpi-imager/issues/730

MichaIng commented 2 months ago

I'd really appreciate it if someone could spend a few minutes, and search for some kind of documentation that explains where to start with alsa and bluez.

See my post above: https://github.com/RPi-Distro/repo/issues/369#issuecomment-2045753694

ghollingworth commented 2 months ago

@seamusdemora

You seem to believe we are responsible for maintaining the whole Linux bluetooth subsystem and that someone at Raspberry Pi would have some special knowledge that makes what you ask "easy for them". But that's just not true, we do not, and have not ever done the thing you are trying to do and therefore we no better than you at searching the various systems, applications and audio interfaces to understand this.

On the desktop image we instead base our support on something originally implemented in an lxplugin and just update it to keep it working where we can.

We'd be happy to add some documentation for the Bookworm lite image or point to a suitable bit of external documentation if it did exist, but we don't have the time right now to research, develop, bug-fix and maintain this on the lite image. I was under the impression that it was possible, but it's not something I've done myself.

Gordon