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Ralim / IronOS

Open Source Soldering Iron firmware
https://ralim.github.io/IronOS/
GNU General Public License v3.0
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Pinecil V2 reboots at target temp #1508

Closed LeasyBen closed 11 months ago

LeasyBen commented 1 year ago

I am using shargeek 100w charger and anker flow usb c cable. The iron heats up quick but when it reaches 350C it reboots. Sometimes it doesn't reboot and works for a while but then reboots later. This behavior also happened on an Anker 65w charger.

Ralim commented 1 year ago

Can you confirm what firmware you are running?

LeasyBen commented 1 year ago

Happens both on the stock Pinecil v2 firmware and after I upgraded to 2.20

Ralim commented 1 year ago

Rebooting after reaching temperature is possibly the charger/cable not being stable when the power draw drops quickly. You could trial setting a wattage limiter (will constrain average power usage, so its less of a drop)

LeasyBen commented 1 year ago

Rebooting after reaching temperature is possibly the charger/cable not being stable when the power draw drops quickly. You could trial setting a wattage limiter (will constrain average power usage, so its less of a drop)

Thanks I’ll try it, are you aware of any chargers that are well tested to not have this issue at all? I am willing to return the charger for one that works with no modifications

Ralim commented 1 year ago

The Pinecil wiki should have some details afaik; you can also ask in the community chats and get a lot of info quickly usually.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

LeasyBen Pinecil Wiki page has links to the live Pinecil Community Chat in Discord where volunteers are. the discord also has a bridge to telegram and matrix if you have those and you can still see the chat but not have all the discord features. https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil#Community_Chat_links

I'm wondering if you have tried another different USB-C cable. This seems like either a cable or charger problem or could it possibly be a grounding problem? Some of those 2-prong USB-C chargers have issues that you would not see if you were just charging a phone but because they do not have a 3rd ground Prong they will cause things like pinecil to reboot occasionally during usage. you probably could see this also if you sat and watch it charger your phone you might see that same charger go in and out on the power icon at the top of the phone.

you could even have 3 chargers of the same exact brand and one does the reboots and 2 others do not. These 2-prong chargers are Class 2 insulation with the Double square symbol which means they are allowed to be sold bc they have plastic insulation to prevent human shock but they still don't have a real ground for extra current to go to. There are articles written about how some of these 2-prong class 2 chargers for phones for example cause kitchen GFCI wall outlet to flip.

I would try a different cable and if that doesn't work get a different charger. there are several working tested chargers that are under $25 linked on Pinecil Wiki page. but I also have some other options if you want a little better charger . if you join the Pinecil live chat, volunteers will have a lot of good info and help you troubleshoot your issue.

Pine64 PinePower Desktop may be the only real grounded USB-C power supply sold available at pine64.com . I saw there was one with 3-prong cord from Baseus but I tested those also and they only have ground to the ground socket of the AC plug on the charger but the USB-C port is not grounded. there are also some good and reasonably priced EPR chargers that have been tested by members and work without reboot issue.

I would also Update to firmware 2.20 as soon as possible especially if you plan to get any newer USB-C chargers that are PD 3.1.

esmith13 commented 1 year ago

@LeasyBen are you using a Pine64 desktop power supply? If so these do not have a proper grounding setup and cause this issue on both V1 and V2 Pinecils regardless of firmware version. If so, a quick fix it to run a ground wire to the ground pin on any of the USB-A ports on the power supply. In my case I cut up an old USB-A cable and connected the black/ground wire to the ground pin of the same outlet I am powering the the power supply with and this completely resolved the issue for both my Pinecil V1 and V2. I found the suggestion on the PINE64 community forum about a year ago. Hope this helps you.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

@esmith13 the newer Pinepower Desktop has 3 prong Grounded cord... they started selling upgraded model with grounded cord sometime in 2022. but older one or other 2-prong USB-C chargers don't have a ground prong.
the Portable Pinepower charger of course is only the Class II, 2 prong non grounded type as are most usb-c chargers in the world.

I personally don't use a ground cable on the back of the Pinecil Screw and don't have an issue. but I do always plug in any 2-prong usb-c chargers first to a surge protector strip and then that has a 3-prong ground plug to the wall outlet. Doing this method, I've not had any strange reboot issues on any chargers except perhaps an initial reboot in the first 5 seconds from "some" of the newest EPR PD3.1 140W ones (i.e. Apple but apple is a little weird). once this initual reboot is complete, then the chargers work fine the rest of the soldering session.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

@LeasyBen could you try the beta firmware that is linked as a zip in this ticket. see if it's a PPS issue. If you have PPS on that charger and it is rebooting, then perhaps this fix in this link will work. https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS/issues/1460#event-8590732152

if it works, let us know and pls close the ticket.

LeasyBen commented 1 year ago

@LeasyBen could you try the beta firmware that is linked as a zip in this ticket. see if it's a PPS issue. If you have PPS on that charger and it is rebooting, then perhaps this fix in this link will work. #1460 (comment)

if it works, let us know and pls close the ticket.

Thanks, will try asap

LeasyBen commented 1 year ago

Alright, so it does not even power on with that beta firmware. I have v2 iron btw. Flashed it back to 2.20 and it works but still have the behavior mentioned earlier where it powers off randomly when using shargeek 100w charger. Note that this did not happen with a random 90w laptop charger I found, but I prefer to use my shargeek 100w charger.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

@Samuelrmlink do you have a version of the PPS fix beta for Pinecil V2 so that @LeasyBen could try it?

Samuelrmlink commented 1 year ago

@LeasyBen @River-b I've got the same Shargeek Storm 2 power bank. It's a pretty awesome looking unit - I'll do some further testing over the next few days to try to figure out what may be wrong here. I don't yet have the Pinecil V2 - it is on order.

In the meantime - try flashing this firmware, then untick the "PD VPDO Enabled" option in the Power settings.

Make sure to use the right files for your device. In this case - you'll want to flash the Pinecilv2 firmware.

Pinecilv1_PPSfix.zip Pinecilv2_PPSfix.zip

Samuelrmlink commented 1 year ago

Just a clarification for my own curiosity - are you talking about a Shargeek Power bank, or is this a wall charger? I know they make both.

Samuelrmlink commented 1 year ago

Also keep in mind that you may want to wait a few seconds after changing the PD VPDO Enabled setting before unplugging the iron.

Sometimes it takes a few seconds to save the settings.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

Sometimes it takes a few seconds to save the settings.

to save settings on pinecil, you have to make all changes, and then scroll all the way out of the submenu back to the main screen. and then it is saved to flash. then can reboot.

ironos doesn't save settings one at a time as you do them inside a sub-menu and this is to preserve flash since you have a limited number of flash changes (however most people will not see this limit). Idea is if you change 3 different User interface settings for example, it's only when you scroll completely out of that back to the main screen for example, that pinecil will flash so it's all done one time, one flash. then unplug and plug back in and go to the menu setting to check if it's correct.

If I was inside a submenu, and I made a change, and I never scrolled back out of the sub-menu and just unplugged and rebooted, that change would not be flashed.

Samuelrmlink commented 1 year ago

ironos doesn't save settings one at a time as you do them inside a sub-menu and this is to preserve flash since you have a limited number of flash changes (however most people will not see this limit).

That makes sense.

LeasyBen commented 1 year ago

It is the 100w wall brick. I will test the new firmware out soon. Hopefully this fixes it

LeasyBen commented 1 year ago

@LeasyBen @River-b I've got the same Shargeek Storm 2 power bank. It's a pretty awesome looking unit - I'll do some further testing over the next few days to try to figure out what may be wrong here. I don't yet have the Pinecil V2 - it is on order.

In the meantime - try flashing this firmware, then untick the "PD VPDO Enabled" option in the Power settings.

Make sure to use the right files for your device. In this case - you'll want to flash the Pinecilv2 firmware.

Pinecilv1_PPSfix.zip Pinecilv2_PPSfix.zip

I am still getting problems rebooting with that new firmware and the option unchecked

raduc commented 1 year ago

I am getting the same type of reboot with this 65W PD adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09F8WMW9L

The Pinecil gets to the target temp, then it reboots right away. If I restart it it works for a while then it reboots periodically again. I tried the beta firmware but it does not fix it. I also tried a different cable and plugging it directly into the wall outlet.

Thanks.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

The Pinecil gets to the target temp, then it reboots right away.

@raduc have you tried putting a ground wire on the ground screw? some usb-c chargers are ok and will work fine , but because they are 2-prong only and do not have a 3rd earth ground prong there is no were for any small current leakage in the charger to go and this would cause pinecil to reboot.

  1. Try a different charger
  2. try wall outlets in a different room, or in surge protector that has 3 prong cord.
  3. Ultimately - you might indeed need to try putting a ground cable from ground screw on Pinecil to a known good ground point. That is what the screw is for. It's good to check if a ground cable fixes it, then the charger you have has a little current leakage. Class II chargers can have different levels of current leakage, some more than others - even 3 of same model and only one causes reboots. they don't have a 3rd earth pin to take that away.

basically see photos below, Dancho in Pinecil pine64 chat he made a wire using a round flat clamp that would fit under the screw, and then ran that to a huge metal plate on his desk. and from there another ground wire goes to his earth ground.

None of my 2-prong USB-C chargers cause reboots but it does happen with some people and it depends on the house electric situation too. I plug all of my 2- prong usb-C into a surge protector strip first, and then that has a 3-prong plug which plugs into my wall, and I've not had any reboots.

I also have a USB-C charger that has a fully earth grounded 3-prong cord. all the USB-C metal shields tie into that earth prong (they have continuity with it). that is the one i use the most. but only Pine Store sells this one.

Also for an idea how to do it, Google TS100 Ground Wire, since the ground wire thing is done same on TS100 and Pinecil and there are some Youtube examples.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

ground wire first clamps to his desk metal clamp. Then from there a separate wire goes to good earth ground location in another room - this can be several different sources. search engine could give you a lot of ideas where that would be in house to give more options.

image image

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

I would first try to use one of the USB-C chargers that other people got that they know doesn't cause reboots if you don't want to do ground wire. there is a list of several on the Pinecil Wiki page and even more kinds if you ask in the live pine64 Pinecil Chat.

raduc commented 1 year ago

Yes, it works with other chargers, only that particular one fails with it. Even so, I can use it but have to press the plus button to restart it every once in a while.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

Yes, it works with other chargers, only that particular one fails with it. Even so, I can use it but have to press the plus button to restart it every once in a while.

Good to know if it works fine on other chargers and only this charger reboots, I would return this charger if you can. I would not personally use a charger that had current leakage that I knew about. stick with the other chargers that don't cause reboot. or run a ground cable from the back of Pinecil to known earth ground.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

I suspect this is what is happening with the Original poster also. @LeasyBen per photos above, try add a ground cable to back of your soldering iron, there is a special screw for it. and then run to real earth ground.

If this is only happening on some chargers, and not the others, then that charger simply may have current leakage as many Class II usb-C chargers do since they only have 2-prongs, there is no 3rd earth prong to take away the current leakage and this tiny amount can cause Pinecil to reboot. It might be acceptable or not noticed for charging a phone battery or other battery device as no one is watching the phone charge to see if it goes in and out randomly on the charging icon. Sometimes these same 2-prong chargerswith enough current leakage can also cause kitchen GFCI wall plugs to flip too.

There is a list of known USB-C chargers on the Pinecil wiki page you could try that do not cause reboots for people. or join the live volunteer Pinecil chat, and people could help you pick one out. could also just try ground cable too as that might give a path for the current leakage from the charger.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

Thanks I’ll try it, are you aware of any chargers that are well tested to not have this issue at all? I am willing to return the charger for one that works with no modifications

@LeasyBen LIST here of some, and Pinecil live chat people can help you with others if you want to ask about other brands. https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil_Power_Supplies#USB-C_Charger

Live community chat link for pinecil is here. https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil#Live_Community_Chat

Vsono commented 1 year ago

I just got a Pinecil v2 and I'm having a similar issue.

Sometimes it reaches the target temp, sometimes it reboots as soon as I click the [+] button. I'm using an EP-T6530 65W charger from samsung which has 3 output ports. It works well on the 25w and 15w port but not on the 65w port.

I've tried several solutions I could find, but none of them worked out.

  1. Putting a ground cable
  2. Set the power limit to 20w or 40w
  3. Using the latest firmware on the actions page
  4. Using a firmware Samuelrmlink uploaded (Pinecilv2_PPSfix.zip) and unchecking the PD VPDO Enabled option.
  5. try other USB-C cables

PD Debug says:

State 12 NO VBus
1 5V    3.00A
2 9V    3.00A
3 15V   3.00A
4 20V   3.00A
5 5-11V 3.00A
6 5-16V 3.00A
7 5-21V 2.25A
Vsono commented 1 year ago

I've uploaded a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h19CtuH-emg Target temperature is set to 200 degrees c.

River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

@Vsono and others, what I see seems like there is an issue with the charger. First your pd output, it says 20V 3amps which means on one USB-C port you would have max of 60W, so I dont know how they are saying 65W ? the math doesn't work. based on what you are showing in PD debug that charger has PPS. what was the reason you unchecked PD VPDO? Reset settings to Default and try again, don't limit the power. If it doesn't work I would return that charger and get a normal USB-C charger that has at least one single port that supports 20V, 3.25amps, PD65w. I assume you already tried to change the cable also.

See the Pinecil Wiki article on power supplies, and recommendations there. https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinecil_Power_Supplies

Vsono commented 1 year ago

@River-Mochi It could be the charger but it had no problem with any other devices so I can't really tell. I just noticed that when I use the usb c cable from Pine store, PD Debug says lower values than the charger is capable of. thought the cable could handle 65W, I apologize.

With the 5A cable, PD Debug says:

State 12 NO VBus
1 5V    3.00A
2 9V    3.00A
3 15V   3.00A
4 20V   3.25A
5 5-11V 5.00A
6 5-16V 3.00A
7 5-21V 2.25A
I changed VPDO options along with the others because there were not many options I could try. unfortunately, pinecil still reboots with default settings. I might use a dc power supply for now.
River-Mochi commented 1 year ago

cable could handle 65W

the cheaper $3 cable from pine store is a basic usb-C cable and basic SPR cables are only rated for PD60W since they have no emark. I've not heard of or purchased any usb-c cable that is rated PD65w. if you search on internet, the common ones are PD60, PD100 and PD240W. if you want to get the full 65w reading, then a PD3.1 cable 240W or a PD100w cable is needed (as 240w and 100w are same price currently, people are getting the 240w ones). if the usb-c to c cable is not labeled then it's default of pd60w. without getting into too many details here, I recommend searching Internet for "USB-IF SPR and EPR usb-c cable" and that will explain details about the cable spec.

  1. when having issues likes this, the first step is to change to different cables, especially if you are using a low cost cable. try 2 or 3 other cables first to see what happens. Also try flipping the cable over, and then also flipping it the other way. fwiw, i have 3 of those red cables and they are ok but they don't have all the bells and whistles. for example do a continuity test between the two metal ends and there is none because it's such a basic cable they have no wire connecting the metal shields from end to end. all of my other C-C cables where I spent $7-$50 have continuity between the metal ends. not all cables are the same. cheaper cables lack all the features. That said, my red cables luckily work fine to run pinecil however I stopped using them now that I have EPR PD3.1 240w cables since those for for all devices I'd rather just carry the 1 kind. and I found some nicer $6.99 silicone PD60 cables as well that I prefer since they have continuity between the ends.

  1. I see now you were using a regular PD60 usb-C cable and that is why you only see 20V 3A on the PD debug. would need a higher rated cable if you want to see 20V 3.25 amp on PD menu, but the 5w difference on the screen means little in reality, in my testing Pinecils heated at the same speed whether I used a higher cable or a PD60 cable with a standard good quality usb-c charger of 20V 3.25amp.

  2. recommend trying a different cable and then different usb-C charger. We have come across situations where some chargers simply cause pinecils to reboot. have seen people who own 3 of exact same brand/model of charger and 2 work fine, and 1 causes pinecil reboot. if they first test with several USB-C cables and it doesn't fix it, then often getting a new USB-C charger does. I find that the normal ones with no PPS seem to cause me less issues. I also have a PPS charger that reboots pinecil , my solution is I just don't use it. I found several usb-C 20V 3.25amp PD65w chargers for $15-$25 that don't have PPS and all work fine for me versus this expensive $75 charger I have that reboots pinecil and now sits at the bottom of a box.

  3. Once you try a new USB-C charger, if it works let us know.

  4. if you really want to investigate deeper for science then could get a PD analyzer like a Chargerlabs KM002 or KM003 (newer model), connect it to PC, with the charger in-line, then connect pinecil also, and run the PD analyzer saving the logs. Ralim has the ability to look at the logs because he also has a KM002. from the logs is where there are all the details of exact transactions between the charger and the pinecil can give some insight.

discip commented 11 months ago

@LeasyBen Is this issue solved by now? Have you tried the latest release? If this is solved please consider closing this issue. 😊

LeasyBen commented 11 months ago

@LeasyBen Is this issue solved by now? Have you tried the latest release? If this is solved please consider closing this issue. 😊

This is still somewhat of an issue, the iron still doesn’t work on some chargers. If it is possible that the iron regulates its temperature with PPS instead of PWM some chargers that misbehave may work properly