Level changes

[aaronpowell]

Moving some things between the LC and SC roles

[cottsak]

Here here! (@andrewabest's comments)

[droyad]

I'd expect an SD to be able to analyse requirements as well as having technical opinions, that's what makes them senior. I think another name for the role is Analyst/Developer in recruiting speak.

If a SD can't develop a solution independently, a SC is required to look over their shoulder all the time. The same with an SC building a product vision. We would need an LC involved to do that part of the engagement.

[rbanks54]

@andrewabest (and others) Building a product vision is not something we should generally be doing. If a customer doesn't have a vision for what they want to build, why are we there?

We can help clarify a vision, we can help provide solutions that implement the vision, we can help write PBIs that represent the vision, but we don't want to build the vision. Not once. Not ever.

[droyad]

It does say "with the customer". Most customers have difficulty articulating a vision and need our help.

[rbanks54]

@droyad Can you try word smithing something that we can look at? We don't want anyone to supplant the product owner role, and definitely not someone at an SD level. Feel free to alter the PR :-)

Also, if a customer is having difficulty articulating their vision then we would definitely want an LC/PC in there working with them as they will likely have difficulty expressing business value, and we'll need to work with them on that.

[chriswithpants]

@rbanks54 I disagree that we would need an LC/PC to help articulate a product vision. I'd expect any SC to be able to do that.

[todthomson]

... but we don't want to build the vision. Not once. Not ever.

and

Most customers have difficulty articulating a vision and need our help.

I feel that you are both saying the same thing here (just using different words)...

I want our clients to envision and then be able to elucidate their vision, but if they want us to build it or build on it then I think that's precisely what they are paying us for.

If they are vision-less or unable to articulate their vision then they can go elsewhere...

Unless of course they are a big QLD government client :trollface:

[rbanks54]

@chriswithpants Do you think this changes depending on the size and complexity of what they want us to work on?

[chriswithpants]

@rbanks54 I'm not sure. I think it would have to be pretty big and complex before an SC would have trouble with that kind of thing. I see the skills needed to help articulate a vision as being core consulting skills, so I'd expect an SD to have those skills before they earned their 'C'.

[rbanks54]

Let's try this - adjustment made to the analysis skills component. See what you think.

[andrewabest]

@rbanks54

or not understanding yet having the skill to answer questions from customers in a way that doesn't sound confused or "because I read it in a blog".

I was under the impression that our SDs were expected to be technically persuasive - there should be an expectation that they can back their technical decisions confidently in conversation with stakeholders, be that a team member, a product owner or anyone else. They may want to validate their decisions with their respective team leads first, but they should certainly be able to carry out the conversation on their own.

If they could not do this, they should either still be at the D level, or if the sum of their other skills warranted them performing in the SD capacity, they would have an active PD plan to address their communication skills gaps.

[rbanks54]

There seems to be some confusion over what the SD/SC role differences are. I would ask people to see issue #8, which is a discussion over position descriptions and make comments there.

We can then come back here and make other adjustments as needed.

[eashi]

It's not only about ability, it's about responsibility as well.

[michaelnoonan]

Hey team. I've made a pragmatic choice for today to cherry pick the differentiator @rbanks54 proposed for SC/LC. I'll close the PR and we can revisit after using the madskillz in anger.