Closed teixeirak closed 4 years ago
Ok. What traits were you thinking? I've heard that leaf area index is commonly used as a species trait, but I only see leaf area (fresh/dry) here. Would the wood density be from another dataset (I don't see it on the full traits table)?
Wood density should be there.
@mcgregorian1, this is the data sheet you'll want to look at for SCBI trait measurements. Variables that may be interesting include:
NEON traits that I think may be useful:
Overall, though, it seems iffy about using other data simply due to them being snapshots that I'm unsure I can extrapolate out to the past.
I can't look in detail right now, but a quick comment-- Probably none of the above (besides tree heights). I was thinking of Plant foliar physical and chemical properties and Plant foliar stable isotopes.
Other things to add in to model:
HMS is the hydraulic safety margin, defined as "the minimum water potential observed in a given species minus either the P50 or P88 value" from Anderegg et al 2016. In other words, the water potential at min minus the water potential at 50 or 88. "P50 and P88 are defined as the water potentials at which a given species loses 50% and 88%, respectively, of hydraulic conductivity in a given tissue".
SLA also used by Greenwood et al 2017, where lower SLA showed lower mortality responses
For the record, Hartman et al 2018 (linked above) discuss research areas of need as opposed to they tested certain things and then determined certain results.
For Trugman et al 2018, I'm not sure we can use any existing data for our trees to confirm what the paper did. In theory we would need xylem biomass and leaf biomass if I'm understanding it correctly, but this would require another round of figuring out data.
I've checked the HSM data from the TRY database. They only have water potential data for ("qual" "quru" "cagl" "fram" "qupr" "litu"), which are the same ones we have the curves for from Nobby's calculations. However, the TRY database only has enough data to give a HSM estimate for "qual" and "quru."
I also checked SLA, which has data for 11 species. Taking those averages, I did a rough run of the models and it does not appear in the top 5.
Thanks for checking TRY. For those traits (HSM and SLA), its preferable to use our own data.
Krista and I just spoke, and these were the notes:
For the record, running the model with everything included gives the following for the top 10.
Running the model with no hydraulic traits (keeping only position, height, elevation, distance to water, year, and species) yields the following for top 10. This follows what we were finding in the earlier model runs.
These are the coefficients for the best model (# 8 above)
And these are for the full model (# 16 above). The main difference is that elev and distance have a positive coefficient.
I've run the model with all leaf traits (with HSM (using TLP as a proxy)), and this is what I'm seeing.
Running the traits-only model with p50 and p80 (calculated as of 11 june), gives this, in both instances Chlorophyll dominates the influence.
Edit as of 12 June: adding HSM (from the equation given for Pmin by Zhu in an email) does not come out in the top model. In fact, the top two models do not change.
Hi @teixeirak. I've checked the NEON data looking at 2018 (for an example), and according to this, there's really not much variation between the different heights. The first graph shows the temperatures recorded at each of the heights (10,20,30,40,50m), and the second graph shows them all overlaid. I'm not sure there's anything significant here that we could pull out.
Let's drop Chl. Reasons are (1) I don't see a clear biological mechanism as to why it would affect drought response, (2) @nkunert mentioned that its a fairly uncertain measurements, and (3) the coefficeint goes opposite directions in the two top models listed above.
Is it possible that biologically, Chl is a kind of proxy for total leaf area? Thus, it kind of subsumes PLA and LMA, since the measure of Chl in a certain species is related to how much light the species can take in, which affects growth patterns? Or am I missing something there?
Let's treat this as the final traits list:
Ring Porosity Percent Leaf Area Leaf Mass Area Wood density TLP P50 P80
This is what's in your current list in the manuscript, but with chlorophyll removed.
Sounds good, of course noting P50 and P80 will most likely only make an appearance in the supplementary info
I think we should have a table testing each trait individually (issue #36 ), and they can show up there. They just won't be in the final best model.
Closing (obsolete).
@mcgregorian1, I think it would be worth adding some more functional traits to your analysis, but without going overboard.
We now have more functional traits for SCBI available in our hydraulic traits repo. It would be interesting to add some others: desiccation shrinkage (likely to be a meaningful trait); wood density, SLA (commonly analyzed traits that are probably less exciting/ less likely to be strong predictors).
Note that other traits may be available through TRY and/or NEON.