search

Sambruk / Open-Meal

A definition of how information about meals can be published as open data. WIll encompass menues, content and nutritional information.
https://sambruk.github.io/Open-Meal
2 stars 6 forks source link

Identify Swedish schools owl:sameas #14

Open salgo60 opened 2 years ago

salgo60 commented 2 years ago

There is a register of Swedish schools with a unique id see SCB Skolenhetsregistret

image

Shouldnt that id be part of the metadata in the specification like owl:same as as many of the open meals will be for schools

salgo60 commented 2 years ago

OT: created a WD object for the specification Q112566739 please change/update it if its wrong

wincentek commented 2 years ago

OT: created a WD object for the specification Q112566739 please change/update it if its wrong

Nice!

Projektet startade på dataportalen, men har därefter flyttat till sambruk (som har ägarskapet). Jag tänker att inget längre skall referera till dataportalen? Dvs, allt skall leda till https://github.com/Sambruk/Open-Meal

Eller?

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

The reason we did not include skolid is that the municipalities do not include this information in the system so we don't have the data unfortunately. It would be good to have.

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

@bjornhagstrom

The reason we did not include skolid is that the municipalities do not include this information in the system so we don't have the data unfortunately. It would be good to have.

But that is no excuse.... the data is not useful if you dont have 5 star data and same as - cleaning the data should not be done by every consumer see video

See how Humlab is working with "Riksdagens corpus" this is the first time in 6 years with Wikidata I see people working professional

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

I disagree. We can only do so much in getting data owners to create data the themselves do not need or use.

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

@bjornhagstrom But then you work in the wrong way what I think we see now is that old organisations as Riksarkivet, Kungliga Biblioteket dont have the skills so to get something done ML researchers creates the data themself... my comment about the quality of Riksdagens data

What you say is what I call #77-3 no data is produced and #77-4 Strings not Things its a waste of time and money....

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

Yes I am aware of your stance on these things and I agree that you have identified the goals to strive for. But it is not possible to reach them with the first efforts within an area and I do what is possible ot what is perfect. In that regard we differ. With your approach nothing would ever get done since most people are not knowledgable enough to do that. I prefer to build knowledge and understanding for what is possible.

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

I prefer to build knowledge and understanding for what is possible.

Give me examples, good examples.... what I see

I believe in yesterdays weather so 2032 we will still have no data....

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

You want us to work differently so it is up to you to say how we can jump directly to all linked data and prove that it is possible across the board.

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

Example of team members

I feel you have now tested in 10 years to produce open data without creating new digital teams... maybe everyone inside the community are satisfied but from the outside it looks inefficient...

say how we can jump directly to all linked data and prove that it is possible across the board.

image

image

Can you in simple language explain the importance of this list for a non skilled top manager

image

image image

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

That was not an answer to my question. Do you have examples where adopting a linked data approach has worked as a general principle when working with organisations that have a lot of legacy data and systems?

Lonestarrk commented 1 year ago

Additional fields in the api specification is not a bad thing even if the data isn't available now doesn't it won't ever be... more fields in the data contract doesn't beak anything for existing users and when the data is available there will be no confusion or need to change the specification. Some future implementor could have other possibilities than we do.

If school ID has a use case I vote yes.

Den tors 20 apr. 2023 15:51Magnus Sälgö @.***> skrev:

  • learn from the Humlab project http://url they have very skilled people

Example of team members

I feel you have now tested in 10 years to produce open data without creating new digital teams... maybe everyone inside the community are satisfied but from the outside it looks inefficient...

-

Nationell dataverkstad https://www.vgregion.se/ov/dataverkstad/ is producing guidelines how to save from Excel to csv and explains csv if you have people in a project that understands csv you will never produce anything...

I let chat GPT create a spec for "kommundiarier" https://gist.github.com/salgo60/8105808191095303aff3e3e8b6d8b445

say how we can jump directly to all linked data and prove that it is possible across the board.

[image: image] https://github.com/salgo60/DiggUptime/issues/70#issuecomment-1439937960

[image: image] https://github.com/salgo60/DiggUptime/issues/70#issuecomment-1439937960 Can you in simple language explain the importance of this list for a non skilled top manager

[image: image] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/14206509/233386765-5ffb2318-6d0f-4647-b8f8-ef4207fee029.png

[image: image] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/14206509/233386820-798c586d-2087-402d-8c54-ce8bd93e2e55.png [image: image] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/14206509/233386920-815aa28e-de82-4cc9-899f-54a1aa1467c5.png

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/Sambruk/Open-Meal/issues/14#issuecomment-1516368860, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACLM4LYF2OUSNHF34KSULPLXCE5NXANCNFSM5YTQXY7A . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

@Lonestarrk Its not rocket science to do reconciliation we have all schools and ids in #Wikidata

Datastory created this data in Wikidata and did an application Skolkartan

image

image

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

@salgo60 That is still not an answer to my question.

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

You have ELI see workshop - 2 min video

image

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

I will take that as a "No".

salgo60 commented 1 year ago
image

Yes, adopting a linked data approach has been successful for many organizations dealing with large amounts of legacy data and systems. Linked data is a method of publishing structured data on the web, allowing it to be easily interlinked and shared across different systems. This approach has been particularly useful for organizations looking to improve interoperability, increase data discoverability, and streamline data management. Here are a few examples:

British Library: The British Library adopted a linked data approach to integrate and expose its diverse and extensive datasets. This allowed the organization to link and share data with other cultural institutions, enabling users to access and explore data in new and innovative ways. The British Library's use of linked data also facilitated collaboration with other libraries and cultural institutions, fostering a more interconnected information ecosystem.

BBC: The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) implemented a linked data approach for its online content, integrating various data sources and systems to provide a more comprehensive and dynamic user experience. The BBC's linked data approach facilitated the linking of news articles, TV and radio programs, and other multimedia content, improving the discoverability and consumption of content across its digital platforms.

US Government: Data.gov, the United States government's open data platform, has utilized linked data principles to improve interoperability and data accessibility. By using standardized formats and vocabularies, Data.gov enables agencies to share and integrate data more effectively, ultimately providing users with better access to government data and promoting transparency.

Europeana: Europeana is a digital platform for cultural heritage, providing access to millions of digitized items from European libraries, archives, and museums. Europeana adopted a linked data approach to improve data integration and discoverability. By interlinking diverse datasets, Europeana enables users to explore related content across different institutions, thus enhancing the overall user experience.

Pharmaceutical Industry: The pharmaceutical industry has also benefited from linked data approaches in managing complex data related to drug discovery, clinical trials, and patient data. By implementing linked data, organizations can more effectively integrate and analyze data from various sources, improving decision-making and driving innovation in drug development.

These examples illustrate how adopting a linked data approach can help organizations with legacy data and systems improve data integration, discoverability, and interoperability. This, in turn, enhances user experiences and promotes collaboration across different domains.

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

For me that are examples where it has worked, not systemic changes to entire systems. There are no municipalities there either and municipalities are quite different from governmental agencies.

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

Listen to the ELI workshop I feel Spain has implemented in a rather complex organisation video slides

e.g. Arabic 2nd biggest language in Sweden with fallback Swedish

image

bjornhagstrom commented 1 year ago

Municipalities are responsible for a wast number of areas compared to a governmental agency that has a limited scope. Municipalities also have a lot less resources. That creates an entirely different environment and situation. We have trouble getting people to create css files and you are talking about sparql endpoints. You are not even on the right planet here. Well this is the last post from me here this time. We have had this conversation many times over now and as usual I agree with you that what you say is the best solution but I still live in the real world and have deal with that and work with that.

salgo60 commented 1 year ago

Municipalities also have a lot less resources. That creates an entirely different environment and situation

I agree and then you need to build an infrastructure that is datadriven.... Wikidata has SPARQL, has structured data see how Humlab is using that data link.... BUT most of the people in Wikipedia are not rocket scientists, they dont know what a csv file is.... still it works.... --> a good infrastructure exist that supports versioning, > 200 languages, RDF, 5 star data, showing the data in > 200 languages see "#6 Nationell dataverkstaden bör skapa ett nationellt ekosystem hur data kopplas ihop 5 star" I feel dataverkstaden have problems adding structure on the data they themself produce how should they be able to create an infrastructure? We see the same lack of skills with DIGG... so the problem is in the steering committee of the dataverkstaden project that dont see the lack of skills and with DIGG the whole echosystem feels old school when a thing like SFS 1999:725 can go on for 26 years ...

You need an echosystem

image

image

not systemic changes to entire systems

ELI has started to be implemented in Europe image

When when we look at Sweden they started in 1986 to implement SFS 1989:725 and 26 years later it looks like they have given up... was it difficult no just producing the most important document 100 governments produce called "författningar" in the same way.... when I asked Regeringskansliet they dont know they are responsible for the project.... its a playground wasting tax payers money see todays tweet...

There are no municipalities there either and municipalities are quite different from governmental agencies

the reason is spelled L A C K of competence and I guess no one is interested to change the current system.... see if Niels will do something

You need skills

I asked chatGPT see also tweet

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

Open data communities push using DCAT-AP to distribute the data. The anti-pattern I see is that "strings not Things" are distributed and controlled vocabularies are not used. Can you explain WHY cross posting strings in a multi language environment is a bad pattern and LOD is important.

image

image

What knowledge and visions does top management need to start delivering Linked data? Today when I asked the boss of the expert Swedish Government what a Knowledge graph is I get a feeling they dont understand what to deliver and what skills are needed

image

image

Do you have examples of such a roadmap

image

image

image

Can you give me a checklist to see if an organisation is Linked data ready?

image

image

Can you in simple language explain the importance of this list for a non skilled top manager

image

image

image

Lack of data quality I call metadata debt. Do you have a good structured approach how an organsation should add quality to its data

image

image

Cleaning your data I would say you need:

  1. tracability of open issues versioning of your data that is possible for every one to see
  2. a possibility for external consumers to add a change request
  3. a possibility to subscribe on changes
  4. API access Anything else?

image

image

salgo60 commented 11 months ago

More examples of why owl:sameas is needed and the cost of bad data is not ok 2023

@bjornhagstrom more examples why owl:sameas should be part of the spec and then we get 5 stardata see explaination below in Swedish why its good and just a text string doesnt make sense for machines to read..... I assume one use case is that schools which serve quality food and have a broader selection of dietary options might want to showcase this and would be willing to generate reliable data. In the long run, there should be interest from initiatives like "Väl godkänt för skolmaten" and politicians to monitor this

if you cant deliver 5 stardata you have the wrong team.... based on the experience with SFS 1999:175 / #5, it's evident that sometimes, even after 23 years, organizations can't deliver and remain non-learning entities so not changing the team is not ok

Now datastory produced www.berattarministeriet.se/skolkartan/

image

If you had a map of schools in Sweden with a "högt socioekonomiskt index" (high socioeconomic index) and also information about the food served in these schools, there are various interesting relations and patterns you can investigate: - TO GET THIS working you need owl:sameas si we understand its the same school

Nota bene: also the food served should be linked data to make it 5 star data and machine readable...

1. Quality and Variety of Food:

* Determine if schools with a high socio-economic index offer a wider variety of food options compared to those with a lower index.
 * Investigate if the quality of ingredients (e.g., organic, locally-sourced) correlates with the socio-economic status of the school's location.

2. Cultural Diversity of Meals:

* Examine if schools in areas with a higher socio-economic index offer a more diverse range of international cuisines, reflecting a potential multicultural environment.

3. Health and Nutrition:

* Investigate the nutritional value of the meals provided in schools with different socio-economic indexes. 
Do schools in higher index areas provide more nutritionally balanced meals?
* Analyze the prevalence of junk food or processed food options.

4. Dietary Options:

 * Examine the availability of vegetarian, vegan, gluten-free, and other dietary-specific options. This can indicate awareness and accommodation of diverse dietary needs and preferences in schools of varying 
 socio-economic backgrounds.

5. Economic Factors and Meal Costs:

 * Investigate if the cost of school meals differs based on the socio-economic index and whether more affluent areas subsidize meal costs more heavily.
 * Analyze the percentage of students who utilize free or reduced-price meal programs in relation to 
 the socio-economic index.

6. Local Agriculture and Sustainability:

 * Examine the connection between schools in high socio-economic areas and their support for local agriculture, f
 * arm-to-table initiatives, or other sustainability practices in their meal programs.

7. Educational Components:

 * Investigate if schools in areas with a high socio-economic index incorporate more food and nutrition education 
 into their curriculum.
 * Assess if there are school garden programs or cooking classes available and how they might 
 correlate with socio-economic status.

8. Feedback and Parental Involvement:

* Examine if there's a correlation between the socio-economic status and the level of parental involvement or feedback regarding school meals. Higher socio-economic status might result in more parental involvement, which could 
influence the quality and type of food served.

9. Food Allergies and Sensitivities:

* Analyze if schools in higher socio-economic areas are better equipped or more responsive to managing 
students' food allergies or sensitivities.

By investigating these relations, you can gain a deeper understanding of how socio-economic factors might influence the quality, diversity, and healthfulness of food served in schools. This information can be valuable for policymakers, educators, and parents alike.

image image image
salgo60 commented 11 months ago

Do you have examples where adopting a linked data approach has worked as a general principle when working with organisations that have a lot of legacy data and systems?

chatGPT answer you