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ScarletStudy / DGS1-3DS-Release

Release repository for the 3DS version of The Great Ace Attorney - The Adventure of Ryuunosuke Naruhodou
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Episode 3 Grammar error #51

Closed zaiman12345 closed 5 years ago

zaiman12345 commented 5 years ago

During the first trial, after the judge asks for the opening statement, Naruhodou says “(As we all know, except for Susato and me.)” in this situation, instead of saying Susato and me, he should say Susato and I. To say me instead of I, he should flip it around, saying me and Susato.

keksdee commented 5 years ago

This doesn't sound right to me. Do you have any sources to back this up?

Omitting Susato entirely from the sentence would make your version "(As we all know, except for I.)" I find it very strange to believe that the name order would affect the grammar at all.

Here's a source from me: stackexchange thread on "except."

zaiman12345 commented 5 years ago

That’s not what I meant. In the case of someone talking about only themselves, they should say, “(As we all know, except for me.)” It’s grammatically incorrect to say “...except for X and me.” as far as I know. All of my teachers in all my years of schooling have told me to instead say “... X and I.”

keksdee commented 5 years ago

I was rushing to bed when I made that last response, so if it wasn't perfectly clear, I apologize for that. But here I am, back with a vengeance.

Point 1: "I" vs. "me" would stay the same whether it was only him or Susato. Now, this was the most unclear part of my previous response, as I didn't say why we're removing Susato from the sentence. The reason for this is a commonly recommended grammar trick: If you don't know whether to use "I" or "me," take the other person out of the sentence and see how it reads there. Here is a source on that.

Point 2: With that in mind, we can remove Susato from the sentence and you can't stop me. Now, the question is "except for me" vs "except for I." Anyone can tell you this is "except for me," but here I go anyway. Using an example from this website, we can see that "except [for]" is used in a prepositional form here. The noun following a preposition is an object noun, and that means "me" instead of "I." This works with multiple nouns, as well.

Point 3: Susato and me, vs. me and Susato. Final source is combined here and here: "third-person, then second-person, finally first-person pronouns for general usage."

Point 4: This is related to point 2. When you say "Susato and I" is correct, it's not, because that would make them a subject phrase, rather than an object phrase; which we know that they are an object phrase, because see point 2.

With all that said, there was some confusion in the group over this, so I've opted to change the sentence entirely in order to sidestep the issue. Thanks for looking out for quality.

zaiman12345 commented 5 years ago

Youch, I think I was confusing except for and except, there. You definitely schooled me there, man. Thanks for thinking about the issue, (Even if it really wasn’t one) anyways.