Translation Web Sites...

[datahead8888]

@giby had suggested we use Transifex to obtain translations. Basically this website allows people who speak different languages to contribute translations for different projects through a website. It is used by Super Tux and a number of other open source projects. From this site we can generate new versions of translation files that we can then upload into our game.

The URL is: https://www.transifex.com/

If we do not use Transifex, we should at least consider finding some other alternative. It will otherwise be hard to find translators for a lot of languages.

@Quintus - I am including you on this discussion because you had discussed it with us before.

@xet7 I am including you because you have also been engaged in some translations recently.

I'm also not sure what category this can be assigned in github.

[giby]

Another advantage is you can join the "Arctic game" Organization, and benefit from existing translated strings from SuperTux and FreeDroid-RPG. It would make the game more visible for potential players.

Transifex is Free for Foss, open-source engine. There is a free client that allowed to update with a simple command "tx pull" all the translation from the site to the repo.

[Quintus]

I don’t really see the value of adding another external tool to the chain someone has to keep up-to-date. Apart from that the amount of strings we have in TSC is relatively minor, and even minor are the equalities with other games’ translated strings, which in turn may even be wrong as the same strings may require different translation, as they may have been intended to mean something different, or to fit the game style better.

Much larger projects -- I am a relatively active translator for Freeciv, which has two giant PO files for translation -- do not have had any problems with their translation being done the usual way, i.e. PO files that are translated and submitted. There are known good free and open-source editing tools out there, take POEdit as an example (though I personally still prefer to do my translations for Freeciv in Emacs).

The Transifex service is obviously not built for translating desktop applications. Their entire self-description focuses around websites and mobile webapps, neither of which we are. Features like a live preview or automatic JavaScript-based string extraction, which they promote excessively, are useless for us.

Regarding their commandline client, they call it "git-like". They could well just have used Git itself, as it is great for version-managing textual data such as translations are. Heroku is a nice example of a commercial company including Git itself in their workflow, thus not requiring developers to learn new tools (although Heroku does have nothing to do with translations, they provide dynamic hosting of web applications).

Transifex itself is a company, and I do not want to promote any companies with the game. Their product -- the transifex website -- itself is not open-source, all they do is offering free plans to open-source projects, and neither do I want to promote closed-source software. This repository, which I think has been quoted earlier in IRC, has long gone out of maintenance. Allow me to quote the README:

[...] this repository is no longer actively maintained in favor of working aggressively in extending Transifex.com itself. [...] Nowadays there is almost no resemblance between the two products.

Free software is not the place to bring new customers to companies, which of course is their desire in supporting the open-source community. Revising our own, free sourcecode to support a proprietary service, is not a thing I will do.

That being said, I won’t hinder anyone bringing the TSC translation over to that or another side. I will regularyly provide PO files created from the game source (starting with the next beta, I promise), and what you do with them is up to you as long as the final result is something I can merge into the repository.

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

Without some sort of translation site, it will be luck of the draw as to whether someone on the team currently knows a language. For example, if xet7 leaves the team and if we continue doing translation files completely ourselves, this will cause us to drop Finnish support. What sites are there other than transifex, if we do not use that site?

[Quintus]

I may have been a bit harsh, sorry. Still, I’m not going to support it for the reasons listed above.

For example, if xet7 leaves the team and if we continue doing translation files completely ourselves

I never had the intention to "do translation files ourselves". As the developers, our job is to provide a good English locale that can be translated to other ones by providing the de-facto standard for translations, PO(T) files, which also leave us independant from any specific proprietary software.

Without some sort of translation site, it will be luck of the draw as to whether someone on the team currently knows a language

This also holds true for any translation website. Why do you assume that just supporting such a site will move translation contributions from "luck" to something "definite"? Whether people want to contribute at all is not dependant on the modus operandi, and as I explained already I will certainly not reject any contributions on translations, regardless of where they come from, as long as I can merge them into the source tree.

As far as I can tell from my Freeciv translation experience, translations are something that either find people who want to do it or not. There’s a bunch of actively maintained translations for Freeciv (even exotic ones such as Gaelic), and a number of unmaintained ones. Unmaintained translations don’t hurt the game, because Gettext is smart enough to not include translations of strings that have changed, instead it will fall back to English. For Freeciv, the developers regularyly provide PO files on a website to download and recommend POEdit for editing them. Every now and then someone does exactly that and sends the translation to the freeciv-i18n mailinglist, from which a developer picks it up and merges it into the source tree. That system works, and does not create any additional work for the developers.

Vale, Quintus

[Quintus]

Addendum: It’s not about "someone from the team" as you seem to imagine. Translations can be done by everyone, by just downloading the PO files and submitting them via forum, PR, mailinglist, whatever.

Vale, Quintus

[datahead8888]

This also holds true for any translation website. Why do you assume that just supporting such a site will move translation contributions from "luck" to something "definite"?

You are correct that a translation website does not guarantee someone will translate to a given language. It does, however, increase the probability of a translation because people who enter the site to translate another game or to check the site out may see our game and decide to help out. The advantage thus is increased exposure to translators and an interface by which they can translate.

and as I explained already I will certainly not reject any contributions on translations, regardless of where they come from, as long as I can merge them into the source tree.

I would be willing to coordinate with @giby to give you translation files from the transifex site (or some other site if someone can help set it up); we could even mark it as "unofficial" if desired. I cannot, however, guarantee to resolve all merge conflicts if inconsistencies between Secret Chronicles and the translation site occur, and I can't always keep the transifex site up to date with the latest po files myself. If someone else can help with this it might be possible; otherwise it will be infeasible as you said.

[Quintus]

I would be willing to coordinate with @giby to give you translation files from the transifex site (or some other site if someone can help set it up); we could even mark it as "unofficial" if desired.

Maybe the best idea.

and I can't always keep the transifex site up to date with the latest po files myself.

It’s not required. Once we have the 2.0.0 final out the door, updates to the translation strings will decrease quite a lot.

Vale, Quintus

[datahead8888]

@giby, would you be up for creating an unofficial profile for "The Secret Chronicles of Dr. M" on Transifex.com?

[pazkero]

Ok, I'm going to contest some arguments, that's my way of thinking.

Quintus first.

I don’t really see the value of adding another external tool to the chain someone has to keep up-to-date

Updating it is relatively easy and don't need be done everyday. Once every week or month based on amount of changed strings is already enough. Plus, there are already volunteers, right? :)

Much larger projects -- I am a relatively active translator for Freeciv, which has two giant PO files for translation -- do not have had any problems with their translation being done the usual way

The tool is to agilize and make translating easier. It also encourages you to use dozen of PO files: You can split as much that you want. By example, FreedroidRPG have one PO file for every dialog on the game. Transifex takes all those files and automatically mounts a much larger po file for all dialogs, that is then used on the game.

The Transifex service is obviously not built for translating desktop applications

They support manual edits to the PO file, if you want. But nearly every translator loves their tool and only use it to edit the PO files.

Their entire self-description focuses around websites and mobile webapps, neither of which we are.

They were spending months and millions creating a tool called 'Transifex Live'. How much would you promote something that you've spent this amount of time and money on? ...That's one of the main reasons for they say so much about it. Anyway, they also support standard projects. @giby works with it, you know.

Transifex itself is a company, and I do not want to promote any companies with the game. Their product -- the transifex website -- itself is not open-source, all they do is offering free plans to open-source projects, and neither do I want to promote closed-source software.

Yes, the website is now completly different from the repo. But maybe you are doing a mistake there. You absolutely don't need to mention that you use Transifex on your game. There is no need to credit. In other words, by using it, you're not necessarily promoting it. I'm not sureif this answer will satisfy you. I'll link their marketing page for open source there: https://www.transifex.com/customers/open-source/

Free software is not the place to bring new customers to companies, which of course is their desire in supporting the open-source community. [...]

...Wow. I don't think that I ever meet someone so against non-opensource companies before. I'm unsure of how to answer to that. "A man only see what he wants to see". You'll need to accept the possibilities before I can justify anything about it.

Well, the advantage of using a non-freeware software is that there is paid people there. And projects with paid people go farther and are more reliable. That is the best advantage for free software: You don't pay anything and you have what you would need to pay for. By example, you get a reliable software that will not break or go offline for more than a hour.

[ . . . ] which also leave us independant from any specific proprietary software.

You know, Transifex doesn't ties you to it. If in any moment you decide to stop using tx, you can. Transifex also don't and cannot decide how you'll do things.

sends the translation to the freeciv-i18n mailinglist, from which a developer picks it up and merges it into the source tree. That system works, and does not create any additional work for the developers.

But you need to merge first. What if two people translate the same string? And string fixes, when it contradicts? What to do? ...Transifex makes it easier and faster.

Well, I'm done for now. If you're willing to test tx for a while, then good. Only when you test it you can say if you really want it or not, after all. :)

[datahead8888]

@pazkero / @Quintus, see below.

Lie.

@pazkero (jesusalva, correct?) - Please be careful how you word things. I also disagreed with Quintus, but I think he believed what he said was true. I agree with your arguments for Transifex in general (except I'm not familiar with Transifex Live). I tried to come to some sort of compromise with Quintus in order to find a solution that worked for everyone. I really appreciate the effort on your part and giby's part to help us find a way to manage translations better.

@Quintus - It would probably have been best not to close this issue until there was more discussion after your initial evaluation. You can always call @Luiji to get an additional opinion or @ additional team members. Simply closing an issue that invites discussion gives the wrong impression.

@pazkero / @giby / @Quintus - I'd really be interested in seeing the Super Tux / Secret Chronicles projects find ways to work together. We could share ideas, resources, link sharing, and maybe even code eventually. We have the same goals. Transifex is one such possibility, but there may be more.

[Quintus]

Wow, I wouldn’t have expected so vivid a discussion around this. My bad if I closed this issue prematurely, please feel free to reopen it (I can’t currently, replying by email now).

I see you all value the project very high, and I’m only considered some kind of blocking stone in this regard. This is a community project, so I’m not going to enforce decisions I think are correct onto everyone, especially if everyone agrees.

As has been pointed out, my point of view is that I do not want proprietary software involved as far as possible. Stating that commercial software always is better than open-source software is not something I agree with, there are too much counterexamples, Windows itself probably being the most prominent. I have a strong feeling towards the ethics of free software (read: not open-source software), and this feeling is quite independant of software quality. If I have the choice between a bad tool that is free software and a good tool that is proprietary, I will choose the bad tool nevertheless, because of the ethical background.

I hope this makes it clear why I think using a service such as Transifex is a bad idea. This however is only my peculiar point of view, and I only explained this for everyone to understand my behaviour. As it stands, quite everyone disagrees with me, which is understandable; I recognise my position is an extreme one. So, let it be then. As long as I don’t have to maintain the TSC stuff on Transifex — I really can’t — I will not object to its usage.

One thing, though. Don’t call me a liar. I’m a developer, and I know what merge conflicts are, even really large ones. The code-style discussion and its effects have resulted in a giant number of merge conflicts subsequently, and resolving them took me several days. Translation files are no different in this regard, and Transifex will NOT prevent it; your argument is under the assumption that everyone uses Transifex exclusively for the translations. This will not hold true, there will always be people who will not use it, even if it is just me for the German translation.

Peace, guys :-). Let me my ethical opinion, and I let you use your proprietary software. :-)

Vale, Quintus

[pazkero]

Ok,, my time to comment. Usual method: You guys write, I reply.

@Quintus

As has been pointed out, my point of view is that I do not want proprietary software involved as far as possible. Stating that commercial software always is better than open-source software is not something I agree with, there are too much counterexamples, Windows itself probably being the most prominent.

Yes, I do agree with you. Sometimes OpenSource is better. But there are differences, anyway. It varies a lot depending on who is the organization behind the paid one and who are the colaborators on the free one. And so goes on.

As long as I don’t have to maintain the TSC stuff on Transifex — I really can’t — I will not object to its usage.

Don't worry. You only need one dev to type 'tx pull' ( @giby can explain it better ) and as long that you allowed the software to read the PO files, everything is ok.

One thing, though. Don’t call me a liar.

For that I'll ask execuses. I never wanted to offend you or call you a liar. Sorry. I've wrote 'lie' as on 'There are other things as well' or something like that, I can't find a better wording and that's why I (incorrectly) used 'lie'.

Translation files are no different in this regard, and Transifex will NOT prevent it;

Actually, transifex manages all the translation files (except the compiled ones, you need to manually compile they. One command only and without merge conflicts, usually.)

I've said that it will prevent conflicts because it will handle those merges, and the translator can choice how it should be merged. And if two translators disagree, the reviewers can always mark the 'best string' as reviewed and prevent from modification. (Other reviewers and coordinators can still change it)

Well, merging, both on FreedroidRPG as on SuperTux is handled by @giby , so he can explain better about that than me.

his will not hold true, there will always be people who will not use it, even if it is just me for the German translation.

You don't need to use TX editor. Just open the desired file that you want to change, download it for translation, translate directly and then update it again on TX. Transifex will take care of merge problems always that it's possible.

This is easy as four clicks. That is nearly everything. :)

Let me my ethical opinion, and I let you use your proprietary software.

Let me see if I understood you. You're not against the use by the team of transifex as long that you don't need to use it. Am I correct?

@datahead8888

Lie. @pazkero (jesusalva, correct?) - Please be careful how you word things.

Yes, 'jesusalva' is correct.

Oh yes, when reviewing I thought a bit about that phrase, but I just gave up. Now I see that it was a mistake. Sorry again. I didn't wanted to offend anyone.

Ok, I'm done once again. I hope to don't offend anyone this time. Sucess.

Jesusalva

[datahead8888]

Yes, I do agree with you. Sometimes OpenSource is better. But there are differences, anyway. It varies a lot depending on who is the organization behind the paid one and who are the colaborators on the free one. And so goes on.

My view is that open source and proprietary software each have their advantages and are best used together in tandem. Some companies do abuse proprietary software; in this case it's best to be cautious in using these products. I unshamingly use both Visual Studio and open source compilers. This of course is just my opinion.

You only need one dev to type 'tx pull'

I'll probably have to read the Transifex doc (or ask giby) on this when I finally get a chance again.

Oh yes, when reviewing I thought a bit about that phrase, but I just gave up. Now I see that it was a mistake. Sorry again. I didn't wanted to offend anyone.

Quintus tends to be pretty understanding about things like this; we just wanted to point out the possible concern at the time.

I'd be glad to also help out with Transifex coordination here and there as time permits. Unfortunately, though, my time can be very limited at times due to my graduate studies. Right now I will be largely unavailable for 4-6 weeks while I try to get through a ton of deadlines and catch some things up. I can try to help you guys get po files, etc, as I get snippets of time, though.

@giby - if you can create an official TSC (The Secret Chronicles) profile on Transifex, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Quintus]

Let me see if I understood you. You're not against the use by the team of transifex as long that you don't need to use it. Am I correct?

Yes.

Quintus tends to be pretty understanding about things like this; we just wanted to point out the possible concern at the time.

Everything is fine. I’m not going to refer to this any further, and I’m not angry as I understand what you wanted to say.

I’m reopening this issue now. When you have set up everything you need, you can close it again.

Valete, Quintus

[Luiji]

@pazkero:

...Wow. I don't think that I ever meet someone so against non-opensource companies before.

You haven't been around, then. ;) This sort of opinion is common among the GPL'd half of the free and open source world, and it's one that I share with @Quintus.

@datahead8888:

My view is that open source and proprietary software each have their advantages and are best used together in tandem.

Personally, I believe that in any and all situations, proprietary code is disadvantageous to free and open source. I've encountered too many situations where I've used a proprietary program where there were features I would've wanted to change or bugs to fix that I couldn't, too many where I've been unable to analyze the code in any way to determine any level of security, and related situations.

On the other hand, do believe there are situations where the proprietary alternative is better than the free and open source alternative. For instance, I've encountered situations where Microsoft Word was either more featureful or had better performance than OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice (though I don't use word processors except in exceptional circumstances, and when I do LibreOffice is good enough).

However, I don't believe we should associate with Transifex. I think it's fine if people choose to use this software, as that's their choice, but I don't believe we should explicitly support it (including the .tx files associated with tx pull, for instance). I don't believe the benefits are sufficient to justify supporting the closed source software. This isn't like Microsoft Windows where we support it because of the huge player base that uses it.

@Quintus:

Stating that commercial software always is better than open-source software is not something I agree with, ...

I'd like to bring up the age-old clarification that open source software can be commercial, and proprietary software can be non-commercial. Commercial vs. non-commercial and open source vs. proprietary are two different attributes of a given project.

[pazkero]

@Luiji

You haven't been around, then.

No, I'm developing OpenSource projects since December 2013, so I'm still to make my first year on open source.

Ok, now, a pessoal explanation. Particullary, I hate extremes, they're always bad in my opinion. If you go to an extreme, you forget the other one, and loses all advantages that the other side have to offer. That's why I try my best to keep balanced, so I can take the advantages of both. Nothing against the people who choose the extremes, though: I just wouldn't, and that's the explanation.

Ok, as usual, I'll show your text here and contest. You can contest back if you want.

I've encountered situations where Microsoft Word was either more featureful or had better performance than OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice

I'm not sure what happened to OpenOffice, it was good when it was still under SUN's direction. (a proprietary company that did an open-source work. That's rare.) In my opinion, OpenOffice 2005 (I think, not sure of the year) is a thousand times better than LibreOffice 2014 and probably LibreOffice 2020 as well. That is one of reasons why I'm allied with Tx. Companies tends to allows open source workers work better.

Well, I must say anyway that LibreOffice Writer and Calc is always below what I need and I end up needing to use Word or Excel to attend my needs because I don't have OpenOffice.

Personally, I believe that in any and all situations, proprietary code is disadvantageous to free and open source.

Yes, it's your opinion and I'll respect it. (If I don't please warn me to I correct my text)

Well, I think that proprietary code can help open source like any tool, and this help can sometimes speed up and optimize a lot of things, and help to the open source project be better than the non-open source one. However, the tool that you utilized is not a part of the project. It's a tool that DEVs use to do the project.

(PS. Open Source teams tend to be better imo. With good tools, I'm sure that any Open Source team can beat non-open source projects with a large advantage. Problem is that the non-opensource will incorporate the opensource code and get ahead again.)

I don't believe we should explicitly support it (including the .tx files associated with tx pull, for instance).

Just add they to .gitignore or create a new branch that includes the files for translators. Or am I wrong?

Anyway, all .tx files can be removed every release. They're only needed on the repos of the translation coordinators. You'll use the .po generated file, after all.

I've encountered too many situations where I've used a proprietary program where there were features I would've wanted to change or bugs to fix that I couldn't

Well, in this case they expect you to report the bug/feature to them. They are not afraid of open source colaborators helping them with their codes. However they have competitors, and if they leave their code free to anyone see, their competitors would copy it and change minimal parts, and then beat their sells, which is bad for them, would lead them to fallence. In other words: You cannot see their code because if you could, their market competitors would see as well, and leave they out of the market. They need to pay a lot of things that opensource don't, after all.

I don't believe the benefits are sufficient to justify supporting the closed source software.

Sorry if I be rude, but who suggested to support transifex? No one asked (or will ever ask, I hope) to you put on front page: "Hey, we use transifex". You can just ask the translators to enter in contact with you, and if they want to join, then show them that we use transifex and they can use it as well, if they want. (Otherwise they can do on their classic way.) Of course, putting somewhere a link to transifex page may attract more translators because transifex is easy to use, but it's not needed.

Ok, I'm probably done by now, but I want to add a last detail.

You know that transifex was created to be the best tool for open source, right? It's their mission. In administration, 'mission' is the reason why Transifex was created and exists. Technically speaking, if they can't attend the open source, there is no reason to Transifex exists. Changing would, of course, impact heavily on everything inside their company, as everything is build thinking on that. (Although Transifex Live was not really done thinking on open source needs. They need money to keep servers alive, after all. Donation is not a reliable way to do it, and I'm not sure if open source projects notice it before they need to close their servers because 'we didn't got the required amount to keep servers running'.)

And, um, if I ever offend anyone, please tell me. I'm not perfect, after all. Offending people is every easy, the hard is repair the damage done.

Success. Jesusalva.

[Luiji]

I'm not sure what happened to OpenOffice, it was good when it was still under SUN's direction.

The trouble I've encountered with OpenOffice dates back to when Sun still ran it. I found that quite soon after Oracle purchased Sun, OpenOffice had some significant performance improvements (especially noticeable in start up time). I'd argue that LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice.org, at this point, are quite a bit ahead of what Sun had to offer.

Well, in this case they expect you to report the bug/feature to them.

Often times the developer is either difficult to contact, finds themselves unable to fix or add certain features, or simply doesn't care about you since you didn't take their "enterprise" version or some such. Even if it's good now, support may decay in the future. With free and open source I don't have to worry about that -- I can at minimum rely on my own technical competence.

No one asked (or will ever ask, I hope) to you put on front page: "Hey, we use transifex".

I use the term "support" in the technical sense, as in including scripts, code, or practices that induce compatibility or integration with the system, not as in advertising.

You know that transifex was created to be the best tool for open source, right?

I'm sorry, but I fundamentally believe that for something to be the "best tool" for free and open source software, it itself must be free and open source software.

Proprietary code violates the fundamental freedom that free and open source software strives to achieve: the right of users to modify the tools stored on their computers. There are other rights associated with the free and open source movement, such as the right to run for any purpose, the right to redistribute, and the right to redistribute modifications, but I believe that the most fundamental right any user should have available to them is the right to modify.

Again, if people want to use Transifex to translate the project and contribute translations as a result, I think that's fine. But I don't believe that we should use it as a project. Software such as TSC is built on the foundation that users should be able to use, modify, and redistribute them without limitations, except perhaps the limitation that they can't strip that right from others. It would be against this principle for us to use any proprietary tools within our development environment.

We use the GNU Compiler Collection, CMake, SDL, CEGUI, etc. because they, too, are free and open source software. Although we may support Microsoft Visual Studio, it is not part of our development cycle, as much as a development consideration, and we support it only to permit more people to access our project.

It is the choice of the individual developer to interact with proprietary systems, but it should not be the choice of the project to do so.

Addendum: I would like to clarify that I do worked in proprietary environments, actively use proprietary tools, and to a limited extent even write proprietary software (work requirements; I'd rather not, though). It's just that I don't believe such proprietary tools are appropriate for a project such as TSC.

[Quintus]

I have to say that I fully agree with @Luiji. We cannot embrace proprietary software. TSC is a free software project, and it is highly contradictive if as such we would allow the use of such tools. The spirit of free software, as opposed to solely open-sourcing something, just does not allow for it. For a deeper understanding, I recommend you to read the Free Software Definition and this great article on open-source vs. Free Software. Let me quote a single passage from it:

The free software activist will say, “Your program is very attractive, but I value my freedom more. So I reject your program. I will get my work done some other way, and support a project to develop a free replacement.” If we value our freedom, we can act to maintain and defend it.

Therefore, I’m not going to accept changes to the TSC repository to make this work. If anyone wants to maintain translations in a different mannor from the usual PO files, it is considered unofficial. Submit a PO file via Pull Request, email, or whatever you like.

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

I haven't been able to reply to this for some days because it is a long discussion and because I'm under some deadlines at school. It looks like you have already made decisions, but I will still make my arguments.

@Luigi:

Often times the developer is either difficult to contact, finds themselves unable to fix or add certain features, or simply doesn't care about you since you didn't take their "enterprise" version or some such. Even if it's good now, support may decay in the future. With free and open source I don't have to worry about that -- I can at minimum rely on my own technical competence.

Open Source projects can also go dead (as this one did for a bit after FluXy left) and often do go dead. Yes, you can still analyze the code yourself, but learning the architecture of a large application can take a massive amount of time, especially if you cannot reach the original developers. I don't think there is any hard answer as to whether open source or proprietary software is better with respect to this point.

@Luigi:

I'd like to bring up the age-old clarification that open source software can be commercial, and proprietary software can be non-commercial. Commercial vs. non-commercial and open source vs. proprietary are two different attributes of a given project.

I think what a lot of people really want to debate is really licensing. Personally, I dislike the GNU license because I don't believe in forcing programmers to make their software free (or even making their source code available). I would usually prefer a BSD license for open source software (which as Quintus would point out propagates proprietary software, though that actually is the goal), unless I wanted to maintain competitive advantage for something by only open sourcing it under the GNU license (or a restricted open source license). Open source is a great idea; it's the licensing I personally disagree with. I don't disagree strongly enough to avoid using or contributing to GNU licensed software, however. GNU licensed software can be commercialized but requires companies to make money off support or distribution charges. I have done application support before, and I can tell you it stinks sometimes. I think it's reasonable for programmers to charge for their coding work.

@pazkero:

Particullary, I hate extremes, they're always bad in my opinion. If you go to an extreme, you forget the other one, and loses all advantages that the other side have to offer.

I agree 100%. I take similar views on desktop versus web based apps, native versus virtual machine based code, and most coding standards (even goto statements, in very extreme cases).

@Quintus:

TSC is a free software project, and it is highly contradictive if as such we would allow the use of such tools.

My thought is that TSC doesn't really need to take a stand on an issue like this and is thus free to intermix proprietary tools with open source tools. It is simply a game for people to enjoy, and such tools can be made optional. I know I'm not going to convince you, though, much as a Democrat (political party) will not convince a Republican on an issue. I just wanted to share my thoughts.

If we go ahead and take a stance like this, we also need to make getting ourselves off github a priority, since it runs based on propriety software. Getting off github would be beneficial for other reasons, though, such as the fact that people who aren't primarily programmers (ie. Mr. Vertigo and jobromedia) have little reason to create a github account and thus never use our issue tracker. Keeping a mirror of the repo posted on github through semi periodic git updates would still be advantageous, though, since it acts as a major distribution channel, even for open source projects.

@Quintus:

Therefore, I’m not going to accept changes to the TSC repository to make this work. If anyone wants to maintain translations in a different mannor from the usual PO files, it is considered unofficial.

This probably is going to end up being the decision, but I'd suggest waiting on laying down rules until everyone has had a chance to speak.

If we don't use Transifex, I think we would benefit from at least finding an open source alternative in order to give a good user interface to translators who don't like text files. The main reason why I suggested Transifex was to leverage preexisting work by the Super Tux team and build collaboration with them.

@xet7 - do you have any thoughts on this? You are a translator, so your opinion is invaluable, much like Quintus's with his German translating.

[xet7]

@datahead8888 @Quintus :

I found with google this github issue about transifex: https://github.com/transifex/transifex/issues/206

So although transifex has some free software projects: https://www.transifex.com/tag/free%20software/

It's better to use http://weblate.org instead for web based translations, because weblate is also free software. It could be installed to alexandria server for integrations etc. I like weblate because it's web interface is already in Finnish language too, while Transifex interface is still English.

Although I can use git, github, nano and poedit for translations, that may not scale to many languages with many less-technical translators of TSC.

[xet7]

@datahead8888 @Quintus :

Actually it was very easy to login to https://hosted.weblate.org that is hosted webslate for free sofware projects, and start translating webslate software, so it would be easiest to use it to translate without maintaining the software updates. But that depends what you decide about it.

[Luiji]

@datahead8888:

If we go ahead and take a stance like this, we also need to make getting ourselves off github a priority, since it runs based on propriety software.

This does touch on a problem I've had for awhile. The problem is that I and many other developers have become at least partly dependent on GitHub, since forking a GitHub-based project is much easier when using GitHub for the fork, and a huge number of free and open source projects that we tend to depend on (especially Ruby projects) are here now.

However, Git is fully capable of supporting forking and pulls as-is. The primary things we lose are the Wiki (which we don't use anyway), the issue tracker (which is more of a problem), and the pull request system and fork network features (even more of a problem). We actively stand to gain from using GitHub in a way that Transifex does not offer, though to an extent it doesn't seem as much as it would be for other projects.

We could probably stand to move to a fully free service such as Gitorious. One potential benefit of a fully free service like this would be that we could migrate to self-hosting without switching software a second time in the future.

In any case, we definitely should hold off on this sort of transition until TSC development becomes more stable. Migrating off of GitHub could be damaging at this point. Perhaps we can review this situation once TSC gets through to 2.1 or whatever version where bugs are nearly all fixed, scripting support becomes more finalized, and/or the GUI system is upgraded.

EDIT: Another alternative may be GitLab.

[Quintus]

This does touch on a problem I've had for awhile. The problem is that I and many other developers have become at least partly dependent on GitHub

Yeah, sadly. I don’t remember exactly, but as far as I know Torvalds himself once had a quite clear opinion on this centralisation (as he always has clear opinions...). I absolutely stand behind the decision to move off GitHub. Utilising Git’s hooks, keeping a second repository in sync is not a problem. We can easily host the master repository ourselves, and mirror to GitHub or Gitorious; the last one preferred. An external copy of the repository is also good from a backup point of view, though we probably have to check with them before we push our several-hundred-MiB repository onto their service :-)

One possibly alternative also is Redmine. You can see it in action for example as the Ruby language bugtracker.

We will of course not change anything before the 2.0.0 release. I have been sorting out legal stuff today (just look at the commit log), so I’m sorry I wasn’t table to release an RC yet. I’m still waiting for a reply from Aakburns, and also did some code changes, so I guess I will release a last beta version now, with the RC following next weekend.

Vale, Quintus

[pazkero]

Given circunstances and my personal well beign, I'll not adopt standard reply method. I'll instead, just mark some things that called my attention and seemed worth commenting. And finish with a comment of mine.

@datahead8888

It is simply a game for people to enjoy, and such tools can be made optional.

This is the smartest sentence that I probably read on this issue util now. Congratulations, what I tried to say in hundreds of words you've said in one line.

@xet7

It's better to use http://weblate.org instead for web based translations, because weblate is also free software. It could be installed to alexandria server for integrations etc. I like weblate because it's web interface is already in Finnish language too, while Transifex interface is still English.

Your comment was good, because you didn't missed the main point. We are proposing transifex because we would gain some things like translators, but we don't need to use tx. We can use a similar.

Although I can use git, github, nano and poedit for translations, that may not scale to many languages with many less-technical translators of TSC.

I agree a lot with you. I would rather not attempt to manually change a po file. Plus, i'm afraid of cross-translations (i translate the same string that somebody else translate) which are a waste of time.

---

Ok, I'll finally write something instead of just confronting opinions. I think that I put more fire on the wood, and that was not what I meant to.

First. The idea of using a tool like transifex is: Open source projects depends on colaborators. Getting specialized colaborators who would translate the PO file manually is infinitely harder than getting people who say english, liked the game, and wishes to contribute to the game, by translating it to their language. Quintus and Luiji are specialized people, they have no problem in taking a PO file and changing it. But if you want to support the game in many languages, remember one thing: Some of translators might not even know what is a PO file. Seriously, some of them are not actually software translators, they're just translators who happened to be translating a software.

Ok. @xet7 suggested using weblate. I personally never used it and I would rather not use it, as I already have many problems in translating on transifex now that I have less acess to internet. But, weblate is better than manual PO editing. Most of translators which we are aiming might not touch a PO file. After all, software knowledge is not required to translate something.

---

And suddently our conversation that was "just" about using transifex or not become a battle about wheter open software can only use open software or not. We've lost the main focus, that was to use a tool to translate things instead of manually editing PO files. Transifex was a suggestion.

I'll give my opinion. We are mostly babbling about ideals. So why we don't leave ideals aside, and do a pros and cons list? We should also take weblate and do a list as well. Then we do a votation with all colaborators, with no distitions: Transifex, weblate, whatever-other-tools, or keep with manual PO editing. What do you guy think?

Sucess and Jesus bless you. Jesusalva

[Quintus]

It's better to use http://weblate.org instead for web based translations, because weblate is also free software.

:+1:

I agree a lot with you. I would rather not attempt to manually change a po file

POEdit hides that very well from you.

Plus, i'm afraid of cross-translations (i translate the same string that somebody else translate) which are a waste of time.

TSC is not large enough for this to realistically happen. With Freeciv, the PO files are a hundred times or even more larger. It doesn’t happen there neither, so this fear is disproved simply by practical translation processes.

I think that I put more fire on the wood, and that was not what I meant to.

No, it’s fine. Conflicts like this are good, their resolution will bring the project forward.

First. The idea of using a tool like transifex is: Open source projects depends on colaborators. Getting specialized colaborators who would translate the PO file manually is infinitely harder than getting people who say english, liked the game, and wishes to contribute to the game, by translating it to their language.

Yes we depend on contributors. I however do not expect a large number of those show up when using tx, and abandoned translations will occur equally frequent as with simple PO files. As a pure convenience tool, I don’t think it justifies sacrificing the aims of free software. We’ll use something less convenient if it maintains the freedom better. @xet7’s suggestion is an option we can really look into, if it works well with PO files inbound and outbound.

Some of translators might not even know what is a PO file

That’s quickly explained. It’s a file containing translations. Throw POEdit on it, and send the result back to us. Done. POEdit is designed well enough to not have people learn the syntax of PO files, it is basically point’n’click. It also won’t send IP addresses and other information unrelated to the translation itself to third parties.

many problems in translating on transifex now that I have less acess to internet.

Then use POEdit. Works perfectly fine offline and doesn’t depend on a network connection in any way :-)

After all, software knowledge is not required to translate something.

It isn’t. POEdit is a program for non-programmers, just like Thunderbird or LibreOffice are. There is no technical knowledge required. Give it the PO file, and it wraps up everything in a shiny UI you can click into. The result is then submittable easily.

So why we don't leave ideals aside, and do a pros and cons list?

I’m going to say something controversial now. I’ve quoted Stallman about free software ideals previously, and I do it again:

The free software activist will say, “Your program is very attractive, but I value my freedom more.

Ideals are ideals. They are immune to pros and cons of specific items, because they strive to achieve something besides being tackled from all sides. They are principles, designed to make the world a better one. Call me a fanboy of free software. I am, and I’m proud of it.

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

It isn’t. POEdit is a program for non-programmers, just like Thunderbird or LibreOffice are. There is no technical knowledge required. Give it the PO file, and it wraps up everything in a shiny UI you can click into. The result is then submittable easily.

I was not aware of PO Edit. It sounds like a very useful tool -- as you said people will not always want to use a website.

@xet7’s suggestion is an option we can really look into, if it works well with PO files inbound and outbound.

Sometimes people may still want the website, and they may find it to be a useful way to quickly see each other's changes without sending PO files to developers to commit in git. Thus my suggestion is to just use both a website and POEdit, letting contributors choose whatever works best for them. We can try webslate.org out, and if no one likes it, move to some other website.

Ideals are ideals. They are immune to pros and cons of specific items, because they strive to achieve something besides being tackled from all sides. They are principles, designed to make the world a better one. Call me a fanboy of free software. I am, and I’m proud of it.

We're not going to use Transifex because it was rejected with a general vote. I have a lot of respect for you standing up for what you believe in @Quintus, even if I don't share your point of view. Always remember, of course, that others will have different opinions on issues like this.

[pazkero]

@Quintus

many problems in translating on transifex now that I have less acess to internet.

Then use POEdit. Works perfectly fine offline and doesn’t depend on a network connection in any way :-)

Actually, I can edit the po files offline with Transifex. I meant more on the sense that I don't have free time my attention to tx is hardly beign suffice, so I cannot split it with another tool. In other words: I only work with transifex and this is my final word about it. Anything that you say or do will make me change my mind. I'm sorry. But this is not important. It's just Brazilian Portuguese language...

Ideals are ideals. They are immune to pros and cons of specific items, because they strive to achieve something besides being tackled from all sides. They are principles, designed to make the world a better one. Call me a fanboy of free software. I am, and I’m proud of it.

Yes. Ideals are ideals. Let's not discuss them, there is no winner on such discussions. Only losers. Everyone lose when discussing such things. About the fanboy stuff... Sorry, but I'm not aware of what this is. Plus, I don't call the other by names with objective to offend them. Let's call it... Well, I'll join you and call it an 'ideal'.

Sometimes people may still want the website, and they may find it to be a useful way to quickly see each other's changes without sending PO files to developers to commit in git. Thus my suggestion is to just use both a website and POEdit, letting contributors choose whatever works best for them. We can try webslate.org out, and if no one likes it, move to some other website.

I already gave my vouch. I totally agree with your suggestion.

Sometimes people may still want the website, and they may find it to be a useful way to quickly see each other's changes without sending PO files to developers to commit in git.

Not to say about windows users, which doesn't even know what a 'git' is... :P

Final observations: I have no interest in working on TSC currently. I already have bigger compromises with the other projects that i translate and help on DEV: Freedroid, Supertux, Evol.

[giby]

Mmmmm you have misunderstood 2 points:

Transifex IS opensource

Transifex isn't basically a comercial buisness and is free for other opensource project

They started some commercial service for many users registered for starting translating, then asked money to the projects, then they created a system for some project willing to pay and order a translation could find users willing to be paid.

[Luiji]

@giby Where can you acquire the source code for Transifex?

[giby]

So, old source are here https://github.com/transifex/transifex

They are curently working hard on code, and stop maintening github sources, but are planing to make again open-source the libraries and tools, keeping feature that are commercial only closed.

https://github.com/transifex/transifex/issues/206#issuecomment-15243207

It is still engaged in open-source stuff https://www.transifex.com/about/

[Luiji]

@giby:

Nowadays there is almost no resemblance between the two products. [transifex repo and transifex itself]

This hardly counts as transifex.com being open source. The README itself identifies that this source release in no way resembles the modern website.

[Quintus]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

                A N N O U N C E M E N T   O F   V O T E

8th vote                                                        April 11th, 2016

This is a formal vote announcement as per § 5 of the Voting Rules
(VotR), which are available online[1]. A vote that is accepted by the
team results in a final decision on a topic and determines how to
proceed.

Allowed to vote is any team member, which as per § 1 VotR is everybody
who is publically listed as a member of the “Secretchronicles”
organisation on GitHub.

Proponent
°°°°°°°°°

datahead <cjj_009@yahoo.com>

Vote Subject
°°°°°°°°°°°°

In the 2nd General Discussion, the vote for deciding about a translation
software to use failed because of a remis situation of 2:2 votes with 1
abstination. Since that vote thus had no binding result, it is hereby
repeated on the long way on the asynchronous infrastructure of the TSC
project, such that we can finally get this evergreen of a discussion
topic resolved by means of more involvement (than the 5 members that
were in IRC).

Vote Options
°°°°°°°°°°°°

1. Accept translations only through submitted PO files (i.e. keep current state, no change)
2. Accept translations only through Transifex, reject submitted PO files
3. Accept translations both through Transifex and via submitted PO files
4. Accept translations only through Weblate, reject submitted PO files
5. Accept translations both through Weblate and via submitted PO files
6. Custom solution

Voting for any option involving Weblate means setting up our own Weblate
instance (hooking it up to our planned LDAP for a single sign on with
only one single username/password combination for the entire project
infrastructure).

Voting Period
°°°°°°°°°°°°°

The voting period starts on 2016-04-26 00:00 UTC, and it ends on
2016-05-10 00:00 UTC.

Procedure
°°°°°°°°°

On 2016-04-26 I will post the public Call for Votes (CfV) that
officially opens the voting period. After that you may vote by either
emailing your chosen option to the mailinglist, posting it to the forum
into the topic containing this announcement, or commenting on the issue
on GitHub in the ticket this announcement was posted in.

Any vote given before that CfV was posted is ignored. The timespan of
two weeks between this announcement and the CfV is intended to give you
time to decide and prepare, to allow you making last efforts in
convincing others from your opinion, and to decide whether you request a
covert vote (see below).

If no single option receives the most votes (but multiple ones win), a
second vote is held with the set of options reduced to those options
which received the most votes.

There is nothing special about this vote, which means it can be decided
by simple majority.

Covert vote
°°°°°°°°°°°

Each team member has the right to request a covert vote. A covert vote
means that a technical procedure is employed that prevents everyone from
seeing how anyone else has voted. It is intended to prevent conflicts
within the team or between users and specific team members, and you
should only request this if you really think this is required. More
openness is better for the project.

If the request is made, it must be honoured. I will announce the
technical procedure in that case.

The request must be made before the Call for Votes has been posted, any
later requests for covert votes are ignored.

Quintus
TSC project lead.

[1]: https://github.com/Secretchronicles/documents/raw/master/votingrules/votingrules-2016-04-09.pdf

- -- 
#!/sbin/quintus
Blog: http://www.guelkerdev.de

GnuPG key: F1D8799FBCC8BC4F
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[Quintus]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

                      C A L L   F O R   V O T E S

8rd vote                                                 May 2nd, 2016

this is a formal Call for Votes (CfV) as per § 9 VotR. It officially
opens the voting period for the vote described below, that is, you are
now free to exercise your right to vote. A vote that is accepted by the
team results in a final decision on a topic and determines how to
proceed, so please take care before you participate.

Allowed to vote is any team member, which as per § 1 VotR is everybody
who is publically listed as a member of the “Secretchronicles”
organisation on GitHub.

Proponent
°°°°°°°°°

datahead <cjj_009@yahoo.com>

Vote Subject
°°°°°°°°°°°°

In the 2nd General Discussion, the vote for deciding about a translation
software to use failed because of a remis situation of 2:2 votes with 1
abstination. Since that vote thus had no binding result, it is hereby
repeated on the long way on the asynchronous infrastructure of the TSC
project, such that we can finally get this evergreen of a discussion
topic resolved by means of more involvement (than the 5 members that
were in IRC).

Vote Options
°°°°°°°°°°°°

1. Accept translations only through submitted PO files (i.e. keep
current state, no change)
2. Accept translations only through Transifex, reject submitted PO files
3. Accept translations both through Transifex and via submitted PO files
4. Accept translations only through Weblate, reject submitted PO files
5. Accept translations both through Weblate and via submitted PO files
6. Custom solution

Voting for any option involving Weblate means setting up our own Weblate
instance (hooking it up to our planned LDAP for a single sign on with
only one single username/password combination for the entire project
infrastructure).

Voting Period
°°°°°°°°°°°°°

The voting period has started now. It ends on 2016-05-10 00:00 UTC.

Procedure
°°°°°°°°°

As nobody requested a covert vote, this vote will be held as an open
vote. Please vote by sending an email indicating the option you voted
for to the mailinglist, make an according post to the forum topic
corresponding to this message, or post on the tracker in the ticket
where the vote announcement was published as well. Everybody has only
one vote. If you have a GPG keypair, please use it to sign the message
(this is optional, but recommended).

If no single option receives the most votes (but multiple ones win), a
second vote is held with the set of options reduced to those options
which received the most votes.

There is nothing special about this vote, which means it can be decided
by simple majority.

Quintus
TSC project lead.

- -- 
Blog: http://www.guelkerdev.de
PGP/GPG ID: F1D8799FBCC8BC4F
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[refi64]

I vote for option 1.

[ghost]

I vote for option 1.

Am 02.05.2016 um 22:29 schrieb Marvin Gülker:

|-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 C A L L F O R V O T E S 8rd vote May 2nd, 2016 this is a formal Call for Votes (CfV) as per § 9 VotR. It officially opens the voting period for the vote described below, that is, you are now free to exercise your right to vote. A vote that is accepted by the team results in a final decision on a topic and determines how to proceed, so please take care before you participate. Allowed to vote is any team member, which as per § 1 VotR is everybody who is publically listed as a member of the “Secretchronicles” organisation on GitHub. Proponent °°°°°°°°° datahead cjj_009@yahoo.com Vote Subject °°°°°°°°°°°° In the 2nd General Discussion, the vote for deciding about a translation software to use failed because of a remis situation of 2:2 votes with 1 abstination. Since that vote thus had no binding result, it is hereby repeated on the long way on the asynchronous infrastructure of the TSC project, such that we can finally get this evergreen of a discussion topic resolved by means of more involvement (than the 5 members that were in IRC). Vote Options °°°°°°°°°°°° 1. Accept translations only through submitted PO files (i.e. keep current state, no change) 2. Accept translations only through Transifex, reject submitted PO files

3. Accept translations both through Transifex and via submitted PO files 4. Accept translations only through Weblate, reject submitted PO files 5. Accept translations both through Weblate and via submitted PO files 6. Custom solution Voting for any option involving Weblate means setting up our own Weblate instance (hooking it up to our planned LDAP for a single sign on with only one single username/password combination for the entire project infrastructure). Voting Period °°°°°°°°°°°°° The voting period has started now. It ends on 2016-05-10 00:00 UTC. Procedure °°°°°°°°° As nobody requested a covert vote, this vote will be held as an open vote. Please vote by sending an email indicating the option you voted for to the mailinglist, make an according post to the forum topic corresponding to this message, or post on the tracker in the ticket where the vote announcement was published as well. Everybody has only one vote. If you have a GPG keypair, please use it to sign the message (this is optional, but recommended). If no single option receives the most votes (but multiple ones win), a second vote is held with the set of options reduced to those options which received the most votes. There is nothing special about this vote, which means it can be decided by simple majority. Quintus TSC project lead. - -- Blog: http://www.guelkerdev.de PGP/GPG ID: F1D8799FBCC8BC4F -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJXJ7gXAAoJEPHYeZ+8yLxP/HwH/j8ON93zfG3fk77P05BrXWNx rueI/4KhCR6Btu4LogD1qz0Bq+FGl0D6CkhfyILBKFbiuNyUCfCQlmHlJ53JgE9u 4OACamoxuu+ml6uss/g0wTOjjHO45e0MMTeaif1VDu1+CzEAdKgHI1VK4b22lDJ7 rV37u05brrqONYLhI1DHDoskHLNieDePlaA7y7nN9/EvcjKjsFP6lwtMQ93TU0LU Lw3R/Ha24GdMjdfa1MS6V1bz6u4eC2JOoqpra0Lz5KCLZgwcZ8BKH4mFqKItkFwK aGmgHR0w3djEUr4YH9WZe6IiKn4CaDvfeUVwcdDdGiivzXXmOMSKPpiixsUF8b0= =RFbC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/issues/196#issuecomment-216353327

[xet7]

I vote option 5.

[Quintus]

ML thread: http://lists.secretchronicles.de/tsc-devel/2016/05/0000000.html

[Quintus]

More votes please -- @DarkAceZ @datahead8888 @Luiji @sydneyjd !

[sydneyjd]

I did vote, did it not go through? I vote option 5. -Sydney

[Quintus]

I did vote, did it not go through?

You voted on the ML, which is perfectly fine.

Still waiting for votes from @datahead8888 @DarkAceZ @Luiji and @brianvanderburg2 (and anybody else if I forgot you...)

Valete, Quintus

[DarkAceZ]

I vote for option 1.

[Quintus]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

         D E C L A R A T I O N   O F   R E S U L T S

8th vote                                          May 10th, 2016

Hi everyone,

this is the formal declaration of results on the 8th vote of the TSC
team. It contains the official number of voting ballots counted, their
chosen options, and it states the outcome of the votes.

History
°°°°°°°

* 2016-04-11: Vote announcement
  * http://lists.secretchronicles.de/tsc-devel/2016/04/0000022.html
  * <87shyrx6bl.fsf@hades.cable.internal.west-ik.de>
* 2016-05-02: Call for Votes
  * http://lists.secretchronicles.de/tsc-devel/2016/05/0000000.html
  * <20160502222701.1bf41c65@hades.cable.internal.west-ik.de>
* 2016-05-10: Declaration of results
  * (this message)

Proponent
°°°°°°°°°

datahead <cjj_009@yahoo.com>

Vote subject
°°°°°°°°°°°°

In the 2nd General Discussion, the vote for deciding about a translation
software to use failed because of a remis situation of 2:2 votes with 1
abstination. Since that vote thus had no binding result, it is hereby
repeated on the long way on the asynchronous infrastructure of the TSC
project, such that we can finally get this evergreen of a discussion
topic resolved by means of more involvement (than the 5 members that
were in IRC).

Votes
°°°°°

Of 11 people allowed to vote 8 people did exercise their right to vote
or to abstain, which gives a participation of approx. 72.73%.

People have voted both on the tracker in ticket #196 and on the
mailinglist/forum. All votes from all sources have been counted.

These are the definitive results:

| # | Option Name                                                           | Votes |  Percent |
|---+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+-------+----------|
| 1 | Accept translations only through submitted PO files                   |     4 |  50.00 % |
| 2 | Accept translations only through Transifex, reject submitted PO files |     0 |   0.00 % |
| 3 | Accept translations both through Transifex and via submitted PO files |     0 |   0.00 % |
| 4 | Accept translations only through Weblate, reject submitted PO files   |     0 |   0.00 % |
| 5 | Accept translations both through Weblate and via submitted PO files   |     3 |  37.50 % |
| 6 | Custom Solution                                                       |     0 |   0.00 % |
|---+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+-------+----------|
|   | Total voted                                                           |     7 |  87.50 % |
|   | Abstained                                                             |     1 |  12.50 % |
|---+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+-------+----------|
|   | Grand total                                                           |     8 | 100.00 % |

Effect of the Vote
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Option #1 has been ACCEPTED by the required simple majority of the
team (§10 VotR). It is a binding decision the team follows from now
on, all circumstances being equal.

With regard to the vote subject this means that we will only accept
translation contributions in form of PO files.

Right to Complain
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Every team member has the right to file a complaint against this
formal declaration. The complaint must be filed within 14 days from
now on (timestamp of this email) with either the project lead or with
the project assistant lead. The project lead and assistant lead must
file the complaint with one another; if both are involved, a volunteer
must be seeked for.

The complaint has to contain an explanation as to why the voting rules
have been violated. The person the complaint was filed with will then
check the procedure against the requirements of the voting rules
document, and if he finds a violation, he can declare the vote failed,
which allows repetition of the vote in question.

Marvin Gülker
aka Quintus
TSC project lead.
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[Bugsbane]

I actually cast my vote after which presumably would have been a tire breaker, unless the vote was disqualified for being too late. I was told that I needed to change my groups on GitHub to public to be counted, which I did (iirc).

[datahead8888]

It's probably about time to close this ticket, at long last :)

I actually cast my vote after which presumably would have been a tire breaker

What was your vote? Just curious.

[Quintus]

Am Wed, 11 May 2016 03:37:41 -0700 schrieb Bugsbane notifications@github.com:

I actually cast my vote after which presumably would have been a tire breaker, unless the vote was disqualified for being too late. I was told that I needed to change my groups on GitHub to public to be counted, which I did (iirc).

I didn’t see any vote by you. If I overlooked it you can complain against the vote results declaration. File the complaint either with me or with datahead, that's your choice. In case it indeed was overlooked, the vote is likely to be nullified and we have to vote again.

Vale, Quintus

[datahead8888]

If I remember correctly, this can be closed as a result of our translations systems vote we had earlier, in which the team decided not to use translation websites and only accept .po files. Does this sound correct?

[Quintus]

On Sun, Nov 06, 2016 at 03:26:13PM -0800, Chris Jacobsen wrote:

If I remember correctly, this can be closed as a result of our translations systems vote we had earlier, in which the team decided not to use translation websites and only accept .po files. Does this sound correct?

Yes.

Vale, Quintus

Blog: http://www.guelkerdev.de PGP/GPG ID: F1D8799FBCC8BC4F