Name of the hero...

[datahead8888]

As discussed in issue #92, we need to come up with a different name for the hero than Maryo because it sounds too much like Mario.

It has been suggested that we do not have his name start with M in order to avoid similarities, and we had talked about giving him a German name.

I suggested Wolfgang in Quintus's forum, but I'm not really sure anymore. I'd be curious to see what everyone comes up with.

@tristanheaven @Luiji @brianvanderburg2 @carstene1ns @default0 @DarkAceZ @dlpenguinlover @Bugsbane @kirbyfan64 @xet7 @giby @Quintus @ciro589m @sydneyjd -- that means input from you!

[Bugsbane]

As much as I love the name Wolfgang in general, to me at least, it conjures images of large, musclebound vikings, more than the kind of hero we have. :)

I still love Maximus for the hero, as it has a positive association referencing the word "Maximum".

[datahead8888]

I still love Maximus for the hero, as it has a positive association referencing the word "Maximum".

It would be a good name, and Max as a nickname would work except that Ma-ximus looks a bit like Ma-rio.

I'm sorry if it seems like I've been hitting on this again and again, but we were plagued with problems before because of the Maryo name. Thus we need to choose carefully.

I would be open to other thoughts, though, given that we've revamped the name now.

[Bugsbane]

Well, yes, I originally left the project because of unwillingness to drop Maryo from the title, so I understand. That said, Maryo is a clear reference to Mario, where Just starting with the same first two letters... well, that seems to be going well past what I'm sure Nintendo / Redhat's lawyers would care about. If we wanted to be sure though, we could talk to the Redhat guys again and ask.

[datahead8888]

Your point is valid, @Bugsbane, and given that we changed the name of the game (and aren't going to use Maryo, which is way too close too Mario), we do have more options now.

We might see what everyone else thinks and then make a decision from there.

[sydneyjd]

I like Maximus for the name . :)

[datahead8888]

@Quintus - do you think Ma-ximus sounds too much like Ma-rio? I can't speak as to what a lawyer or someone in marketing would say. If we won't have a problem with the Fedora/Ubuntu teams and if it's not likely new team members will have issues with it, I will retract my concern.

[Quintus]

@Quintus - do you think Ma-ximus sounds too much like Ma-rio?

From a legal point of view I guess this is OK. But somehow I don’t really like this naming for the exact reason you gave: it sounds too similar. Not a legal issue, but to make a greater difference to Ma-rio I think we should choose another name.

Vale, Quintus

[Bugsbane]

Given that the M is now primarily for Dr. M, I would suggest if we're looking at other names, that we be prepared to look past names starting with M. If need be, I can always paint out the M's on Maryo's hat in just a few minutes.

That said, what about if we went with just straight Max? It's short. It seems to be a common name in both German and English.

[giby]

Well… if you need a short italian name… What about Fabio ? or to keep first letter Mateo ?

[datahead8888]

I would lean toward a non-Italian name to differentiate ourselves from Nintendo's Mario franchise.

We could go with a latin name to be consistent with the current direction for the name of the villain, or we could choose a German name in order to pay homage to the German led history of the game.

We may want to post a variety of names from common name sites (probably based on ethnicity or type of name). We could then pick out our favorites again. If no one else gets a chance, I could try to post some possibilities some time soon.

[Luiji]

Phil

Short, simple, and completely different from Mario. If you want to go for the German thing, use the German version as the official ("Philipp"), but I recommend shortening it at least in the English translation.

For reference, it means "Fond of Horses" according to Wiktionary.

[Bugsbane]

I'd lean towards using some name that was fairly well known in both English and German if possible (ideally, something short and familiar in a few laguages, but German and English would be enough). That said, "Phil" sounds like a dull, low level office worker in the mail department of some company to me. (Sorry, Luiji!, especially if your real name is Phil!).

I still like Max, although I suspect Matt could work well (short for Mathew in English and Mathaias, or however you spell it, unless I'm mistaken in German). While both of these start with M, I'll repeat that I don't think we nee to limit ourselves to an M name.

[Bugsbane]

Just looking over popular (in English) boy's names, I like: Matt and Max (as mentioned) Zack (short and kind of cool that it starts with "Z") Surprisingly Mateo shows up (I thought this would just be in German)

[Luiji]

@Bugsbane it's not my name and I'm not offended. :P

Max reminds me too much of Mad Max (despite the fact I've never seen that movie) but Matt sounds fine to me. I don't know much about Zach.

I've never heard the name Mateo before, but research tells me that's in fact the Spanish version of Matt/Mathew.

[datahead8888]

Some ancient Roman names from http://www.behindthename.com/names/usage/ancient-roman:

• Lucius
• Nero (might be unexpected)
• Rufus

Some German Names from http://german.about.com/library/blname_Boys.htm:

• Dietrich
• Rupert
• Otto

I probably wouldn't go with Phil either, but that's just me. The above names I suggested are just some possibilities to explore. What first name works may equally depend on having a last name to go with it (if we want to give him a last name).

[Bugsbane]

My immediate associations:

Lucius - Lucifer Nero - Rome burning Rufus - Doofus Dietrich - Marlena Deitrich (1920's actress) Rupert - Rupert Murdoch (evil owner of much of the world's media) Otto - Hmm... I like Otto, actually. :) My main association is Otto the bus driver from The Simpsons.

[Quintus]

Intersting findings for German names you give ;-). Most of these names are not in current use, but where popular up until and probably including the 1960ies; there are still enough people with these names, but they will be generally around 50 years or older. That being said, I have observed in the last years that these names become popular again. For example, "Arthur", a name that had pretty much disappeared during the last century seems to become more frequent again. I’ve seen some teens with this name.

So, some suggestions for German names by me as a German. The following names wouldn’t be considered too exotic, though not necessarily common.

• Adolf (shortened to Addi; hrrm I strongly suggest to not use this one. The association is too hard and too bad, although there are still enough people with this name)
• Alexander (shortened to Alex)
• Arthur (see above)
• Bernhard (shortened to Bernd)
• Fabian
• Felix
• Florian
• Friedrich (shortened to Fritz usually, or, at least in Austria, to Friedl when addressing in familiar context)
• Georg (this name seems to have local translations in quite a lot of languages)
• Norbert
• Oliver
• Oskar
• Peter (very common name in Germany)
• Philipp
• Rainer
• Ralf
• Raphael
• Robert
• Roman
• Sebastian
• Stephan
• Thomas (shortened to Tom)
• Timotheus (but it appears the short form "Timo" is chosen way more often as the complete name)
• Titus
• Tobias (shortened to Tobi)
• Ulrich (shortened to Udo)
• Viktor
• Volker
• Wilhelm (quite common name, shortened to Willy when addresses familiarily)

Not all of these names are really of German origin; some have latin, others hebraic roots. I just concentrated on use of them.

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

I'm marking this as version 2.0, since we really can't publish a version of the game that has references to Maryo in game text (it sounds like Mario). I'll respond to the naming suggestions again when I get a chance later.

[Luiji]

@Quintus It never occurred to me before, but when you said Wilhelm is shortened to Willy I looked up and verified that the German Wilhelm is equivalent to English William. Now it seems obvious!

Something we should consider is whether we should pick a name generic enough that all translations will be able to use it without much "foreignness" or instead use the localized name between translations (William, Wilhelm, Walaam (Persian), Cuglierme (Neopolitan), etc.).

[Quintus]

use the localized name between translations (William, Wilhelm, Walaam (Persian), Cuglierme (Neopolitan), etc.).

This appears to be the "correct" solution in order to prevent the name be recognized as foreign in some language. This probably reduces the set of available names quite a lot.

Vale, Quintus

[Bugsbane]

I quite like the idea of localized names. I'm sure it will lead to an even larger discussion, like what criteria are used to choose the name in each language, but it seems that it will make the game feel more familiar to people from all over the world.

Maybe if we say something like that the name needs to be male, common, short, friendly and possibly starting with a particular letter, without any common associations to unpopular historical characters (eg Adolf).

[datahead8888]

My feeling is that one name that everyone can recognize around the world is better, much like Mario is clearly Italian but works well for speakers of any language (this may be because of Nintendo's advertising, though). This creates creates something everyone shares.

[Bugsbane]

Sure. Personally I could go either way, as long as we can find a single name that meets the basic criteria 2 comments above.

[Quintus]

While adapting names to the local usus seems to be normal when dealing with translation of novels, I have the impression this does not as often happen with video games. It would probably be original if we localised the hero name for that fact alone, though I agree that if we go with a localised name, it should at least convey some form of common identity throughout the translations.

That being said, it might be an interesting idea to take a localised name and use that as a universal one, e.g. instead of naming him "George", use "Jorge" (Spanish/Castellano variant). This particular example however is probably a bad one, because the pronounciation for that name is a little task on its own (I’ve seen many German people learning Spanish who took a while to pronounce it, that might be even worse for English speakers as the English language misses the sound Spanish has for "j").

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

It would be more original to use localized names for each translation of the game, but I would still lean towards having one name for all translations, as long as everyone can identify with it at some level. This will make it easier for people of different locales to discuss the game together (when they use a common language to talk).

I would probably opt for a Latin name over a German one to be consistent with the current naming scheme for the villain. For the German names Quintus listed, though, Alexander, Florian, Raphael, and Titus stand out to me (some are of course Latin). If we emphasize German roots enough, Viktor could work, too.

[Quintus]

For the German names Quintus listed, though, Alexander, Florian, Raphael, and Titus stand out to me (some are of course Latin). If we emphasize German roots enough, Viktor could work, too.

Haha.

• Alexander: Greek origin (Αλεξανδρος).
• Florian: Probably indeed Germanic, I don’t know for certain.
• Raphael: Hebraic name, taken from the Bible originally (one of the arch-angels).
• Titus: Latin name and origin.
• Viktor: Latin origin, victor, i.e. the one who wins a battle.

Vale, Quintus

[Luiji]

Florian: Probably indeed Germanic, I don’t know for certain.

Apparently it's the German, Polish, and French version of Florianus, which is Roman.

[datahead8888]

With Florian, many people will assume we're naming the game after FluXy. It's not a bad idea at all; it's just something to consider.

[Quintus]

What about Alexander? We can shorten the name to Alex, which should be acceptable by a number of languages.

Valete, Quintus

[Luiji]

@Quintus Might be too close to Alex the Alligator. http://allegator.sourceforge.net/

[datahead8888]

Alex is a generic enough name that it will probably show up in many places...I doubt that's a problem. I don't find an entry for this game in Wikipedia.

The most obvious connection is "Alexander the Great". This brings up some interesting Greek references (though of course many say he was brutal). The fact it's a Greek name, though, is interesting. I think it could work as a name.

[Quintus]

Guys, we should come to a conclusion here. It will be hard to release this game without a name for the main character.

Even though there seems to be this crocodile person, I still stand with Alex(ander).

Vale, Quintus

[datahead8888]

It's just difficult to get agreement on something this major from everyone, but you're right we need to bring this to resolution soon. I'd go with Alex, too.

We probably need to send a note out to the tsc-devl disto on this and be sure to include jobromedia, naerbu, and aakbrns, since they're not yet on that distro. We could @ everyone in github, too, though those people should have already seen this discussion.

[Quintus]

Also, one thing to consider: Does the name play well with your idea of the story? It would be bad if we decide on the name, and some weeks later it turns out that the hero’s history completely forbids the given name.

Vale, Quintus

[RedFT]

We could let the player name the character.

If not, then Alex is fine.

[Quintus]

We could let the player name the character.

Wow that’s a nice idea. For text boxes and similar, it should be reasonably easy to add an escape sequence that is replaced with the chosen name.

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

Wow that’s a nice idea. For text boxes and similar, it should be reasonably easy to add an escape sequence that is replaced with the chosen name.

Usually games that do this still have to pick a default name, which is usually what gets uses in instruction manuals and media. If we do this, we could also let the player change the name of the villain.

[Luiji]

@datahead8888 Not necessarily. You can just have manuals and the like refer to "you".

"In TSC, you have to run around killing balls of fur for some reason probably relating to that doctor we keep talking about."

[datahead8888]

That is true, but I think the story and game "franchise" will be stronger with an official name that's used by default in the game.

[Quintus]

Not necessarily. You can just have manuals and the like refer to "you".

That is true, but I think the story and game "franchise" will be stronger with an official name that's used by default in the game.

Actually, the game is named "The Secret Chronicles of Dr. M.", so the "game franchise" will be much more oriented towards the villain than to towards the hero. For that reason I also don’t think that allowing the user to change the name of the villain is a good idea.

I would be fine with the manuals talking of the hero either as "you" or as some specific name like Alex, with a possible slight preference to a default name like Alex as it eases discussions over the game; talking about "the hero" always is more cumbersome than just talking about "Alex".

Valete, Quintus

[Quintus]

I assume that as the discussion ceased, everyone is fine with the following: The "official" name of the hero is Alex. In future versions of the game, the user will be able to choose a name for the hero when starting a new game.

Valete, Quintus

[Luiji]

@Quintus Sounds good to me.

[datahead8888]

I agree with Alex. When we make it so that the user can set the name of the hero later, I think it should default to Alex.

[Quintus]

I agree with Alex. When we make it so that the user can set the name of the hero later, I think it should default to Alex.

This is how I imagined it. However, the choice of name will not be available in 2.0.0 due to feature-freeze, but as the name is not used currently, I don’t think this is a problem. It will probably be implemented in the next version.

Vale, Quintus

[Quintus]

Then it is decided! Congratulations! Our hero is now officially named "Alex", although the game doesn’t use the name anywhere ;-).

Valete, Quintus

[datahead8888]

although the game doesn’t use the name anywhere

We could find an excuse to use his name in a text box. This would introduce some new translations for the language, though.

[Quintus]

We could find an excuse to use his name in a text box. This would introduce some new translations for the language, though.

I want to avoid that for now. We have to come up with a system to translate stuff level designers place in their levels, this is not possible currently and as a new feature will not go into 2.0.0 anyway.

Vale, Quintus