Changing the name of "funky god mode"...

[ghost]

Hi all...

As requested here...

http://forum.secretchronicles.de/topics/256

I thought by changing the name of this, it would make the game more family friendly and, perhaps, more agreeable to Christian families/players. :-)

Perhaps a name like "super mode" or something similar to that.

Thanks! :-)

[datahead8888]

I thought by changing the name of this, it would make the game more family friendly and, perhaps, more agreeable to Christian families/players. :-)

Yes, this can be viewed as pagan. We have to be a bit careful, however - even the presence of magic can be viewed as unacceptable in a game - some people view the Lord of the Rings as pagan. If you think about it, though, all of the Mario games have magic at some level. It is not possible to account for everything. We certainly should be paying attention to this feedback, though, since Secret Chronicles and Super Tux have a strong Christian audience.

I think it should be changed in order to make us distinct from Secret Maryo Chronicles; we need to make our own mark.

My suggestion earlier was "Omega Mode". There were some other suggestions in the IRC room, but I will let people speak for themselves.

Also, @ardvark71, come join us in IRC chat some time. Server: freenode.net Channel: #secretchronicles

[ghost]

Hi datahead8888...

Thank you for your thoughts and the invite! :-)

Regards...

[Luiji]

FULL EDIT:

I'm having a lot of trouble formulating my thoughts on this one well, so I'll keep it simple.

Why I don't think this is worth it.

We're only discussing a subset of Christians, as many would not be offended by this.

I believe this subset of Christians would be too difficult to cater to in general. Someone offended by such a minute detail will likely be offended by much more.

I question whether we should be censoring ourselves on such a minor detail without direct complaint.

Why I want to keep it.

I think keeping the original name is a good nod to the original code base.

We would have to change the cheat code mechanism since it's implicitly based on the word. I'm particularly fond of the cheat code's simplicity, and I like the idea that old players could come to the new game and find this bit of nostalgia (it's actually nostalgic for me...).

[Bugsbane]

I'm not a Christian, but personally it seems like a small and easy enough change that has little impact on the game itself to warrant concern.

So here are my suggestions: Funky Allah mode Funky Ganesha mode Funky Torah mode Funky wicca more Funky Gaia mode Funky Zeus mode Funky Thor mode

All kidding aside though, the part before the suggestionswas serious. We could just call it something simple like "super mode".

[Bugsbane]

On and I forgot... "Funky Xenu mode" :P

[ghost]

On 10.07.2015 19:34, Bugsbane wrote:

I'm not a Christian, but personally it seems like a small and easy enough change that has little impact on the game itself to warrant concern.

In this, that's true.

But in general, I don't even see the problem.

The bunch of funky nutcases that is offended by remotely religious sounding terms like "funky god mode" wouldn't probably use a devils machine aka computer anyway, much less let their children play games on it.

[ghost]

Hi sauer2...

A nutcase? That's ok, I've been called a lot worse! :-D

Really for me, it's an irreverent use of the name of God. It's treating something that is Holy and Pure and treating it as if was common or like mud. Kind of like how a lot of people will swear using Jesus's name, using It as a curse word. Here's an article that explains this in more detail...

http://www.redlandbaptist.org/sermon/honor-gods-name/

My thought was that seeing God's name used in this manner would turn away potential Christian players quicker than it would take a 6 year old to open a candy wrapper, hence why I posted this thread. Yes, many Christians like myself do use computers, even work on them. Like any human tool, they can be used for good or bad. ;-)

Best wishes...

[JoshDreamland]

Personally, I'd be more inclined to see the name changed if not for the sheer number of games and engines that use the phrase "god mode." The subtle distinction is the capitalization of the word "God." The word appears capitalized in biblical text as a proper noun, along with "Lord" and "Father," and even pronouns which are made proper nouns, such as "He"/"Him." In English text, "god" doesn't refer to the biblical God, but to any kind of deity or higher being, eg, the Greek gods. Keeping it lower-case disambiguates this, which is why "Funky god mode" is a completely legitimate name. Not to mention, this would not be the only children's game to contain a non-biblical use of "god." Take Scribblenauts, for example: a children's game in which gods can be spawned in any number, and even destroyed. (Note that in this particular game, priests are somehow invulnerable. No further comment from me, there.)

[ghost]

No offense, I still don't think it is a worse problem than bowing to the whim of religious groups. Even if they are not a small minority. Especially then, because why draw a line. Popularity doesn't mean legitimation.

I don't care so much for this particular case, but remember: If you go that way, next thing that could happen is have Scientologists/church of whatever to show up and claim offense on one of the story characters name. Next up: Symbols and key actions of the story that could offend someone.

On the other hand, since I'm only ... uhm semi-involved in this project, you all better duke this matter out on IRC.

On 11.07.2015 00:59, ardvark71 wrote:

Hi sauer2...

A nutcase? That's ok, I've been called a lot worse! :-D

Really for me, it's an irreverent use of the name of God. It's treating something that is Holy and Pure and treating it as if was common or like mud. Kind of like how a lot of people will swear using Jesus's name, using as a curse word. Here's an article that explains this in more detail...

http://www.redlandbaptist.org/sermon/honor-gods-name/

My thought was that seeing God's name used in this manner would turn away potential Christian players quicker than it would take a 6 year old to open a candy wrapper, hence why I posted this thread. Yes, many Christians like myself do use computers, even work on them. Like any human tool, they can be used for good or bad. ;-)

Best wishes...

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/issues/441#issuecomment-120547165.

[refi64]

I think the difference is that this is a really easy fix...

[ghost]

Nonetheless: You all might want to put up a policy if such issues arise in future.

On 11.07.2015 01:25, Ryan Gonzalez wrote:

I think the difference is that this is a really easy fix...

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/issues/441#issuecomment-120549737.

[datahead8888]

I had suggested changing it in order to make our own mark, but Luiji has brought up a good point that SMC is still part of our heritage. There is no right or wrong answer here.

As JoshDreamland said, I've also seen "god mode" in another game before, which means FluXy or whoever coded this feature was just following conventions.

sauer2, no, we cannot make special exceptions for all sorts of requests by specific groups, since it's not possible to account for everything, unless something is blatantly offensive to a group. It was suggested by someone a while back that we abstain from magic for similar reasons, which could severely limit our story depending on what direction we take.

We might consider taking a vote and/or adding this to the next IRC meeting agenda for further discussion, in order to give fair consideration to all points of view.

[Luiji]

@datahead8888 It's actually a common name in gaming. [1] One of the reasons I like it is somebody might guess it randomly. I'd even like to make it work in the pause menu, since that's where most people try cheat codes.

[1] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=god+mode&defid=836842 (def. 1)

[Bugsbane]

Minor change. No impact on gameplay. 10 seconds to implement. Very important to a certain demographic of users. I just don't see why this is an issue of debate at all.

The only argument's I've seen against this are that it would be kow-towing to religious pressure, or that it's somehow dishonoring the game's heritage.

When the change doesn't impact anything meaningful to the gameplay, or nature of the game, then fighting it just so as to not let "religious groups" have their way, seems to be fighting just for the sake of fighting to me. As to the game's heritage, that seems pretty laughable given the many, many changes we're making that are 100 times larger.

As to the "if we give them an inch, they'll demand a mile" argument, it seems to me that the appropriate response is to resist to the level that the suggested changes are damaging to the game.

If some group wants to make unreasonable demands that nothing magical be in the game, I would fight that to the very end, as it significantly damages the possibilities in the game for no real benefit. In this case it's the reverse. We have a change that doesn't do any damage to the game, is important to part of the player demographic, and as far as I can see, we're blocking it for no real gain beyond a "just don't let 'them' win anything" mentality.

Even as a non Christian - or member of any religion - I find the arguments against even being willing to discuss other options to be unnecessarily antagonistic. It's not like anyone is proposing we call this the "Jesus Christ is our Lord and saviour mode". Heck, we could even just call it something like "Funky mode", and still be referencing our games heritage while keeping our theistic players happy, too. Is that really so offensive to the more atheistic members? In all honesty, I would have thought the removal of the word "god" would have pleased both sides here (if we're to reduce this to a polar argument).

[Luiji]

I find it inane to try and remove the usage of the word god from everywhere you can. I think @Bugsbane is right that this is a minor change but I think he's wrong that this shouldn't be debated. Changing every tiny little thing for everyone is, in my opinion, bad policy.

At the same time, I'd feel hypocritical trying to shove my opinion down everybody else's throat and fighting for such a minor thing to change. If anybody put this up to a vote I'd put myself down for no-opinion, as I don't care nearly enough to push the issue. We have more interesting things going on in this project.

ADDENDUM: Assuming we change this, what should the new cheat code be? Ignoring the name it displays once activated, we need a key-combination besides holding down G, O, & D at the same time.

[Bugsbane]

Personally I'd go for F U N K and Y. :-)

[Bugsbane]

By the way, I'm not arguing that anything is beyond debate. I'm just not seeing any great benefit to NOT changing it, while for some of our users there is a great benefit to changing it. Also I disagree that making this one small, simple change is equivalent to "Changing every tiny little thing for everyone". The debate has now taken up probably 100 times the time that would have been needed to create the patch.

[datahead8888]

I find it inane to try and remove the usage of the word god from everywhere you can. I think @Bugsbane is right that this is a minor change but I think he's wrong that this shouldn't be debated. Changing every tiny little thing for everyone is, in my opinion, bad policy.

We had someone complain again and again until we enforced certain coding style conventions, which are now called upon in every code review. Thus this issue can actually be larger than just a question as to whether or not we yield to certain religious groups. I'm not saying Bugsbane or ardvark have done anything wrong here; I'm just saying it's a policy consideration for other issues in the future.

I don't have a problem with changing if it's not just for the sake of removing "god". Also, not all Christians find the usage of of funky god mode offensive. I wouldn't want to push my view either; I had suggested removing "funky god mode" further above (though for different reasons).

If we can't come to agreement, as Lujiji said, we will have to take a vote. We could also add it to the next IRC meeting agenda, but that meeting probably won't happen for at least a few months.

[Bugsbane]

Anyway, at this point I feel like I've made my points, and I feel like we've probably heard all of the counterarguments. I'm prepared to listen to anything anyone wants to add, but I agree that it's probably down to a vote at this point.

[Quintus]

Who of you all had the idea to start a religious argument in the tracker while I am doing my exams so I can’t intervene and stop it?

This issue’s discussion has entered the highly complicated area of social issues that do not have a technical relation. If we aren’t careful enough, we’re going to end up like this: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 — nobody of us wants that.

As has been pointed out, it is impossible to make a game that will not hurt one or others feelings in some way. Please be aware that nobody is forced to play this game, and if he dislikes our use of the term “god mode” he can freely decide to cease use of TSC.

It is void to discuss such a social issue. As long as no code or asset is added to the game with the intention to offend somebody (which the god mode for sure did not have), either way (keeping or changing the term) is fine. Thus it is best to just vote on it, and do so again if any other religious or social complaints arrive.

Please do not start a vote in the next days while I’m still doing my exams. I will take care of that when I have finished them.

Valete, Quintus

[Luiji]

@Quintus You have no idea how many times I've rewritten every post I've made in an attempt to avoid this becoming a religious argument instead of just a policy argument. ;) This topic has taken way to many brain cells just out of total fear of what happens if I express myself the wrong way. Also damn that Opal topic... shudders

@Bugsbane My point is not that changing this is equivalent to "Changing every little thing etc.", it's that if we just change it without any debate we would've been implicitly setting that policy. I said so because I believed that you're earlier point was that this particular topic wasn't worth debate because it required little effort to implement. My apologies if I interpreted you wrong.

Also, @Bugsbane, holding down F-U-N-K-Y simultaneously is insanely hard on a QWERTY keyboard. Maybe we should just keep the same key binding but suggest it's actually "DOG"? Since they're all pressed in unison, it can technically mean any anagram.

[refi64]

@Luigi It can be called...

...

TOP DOG MODE!

[datahead8888]

@Quintus - some discussion is needed any time we are going to take a vote so that we can each decide how we will vote. You are correct that it's time to just take a vote here, though.

[sydneyjd]

Im sorry for taking so long to answer, but here is my view. Im personally fine with "Funky God mode" or "GOD" mode, mainly because its short, and for Christians(me for one) its impossible to get away from people refering to gods as invincible, so in a way GOD mode makes sense. But then again, i do know what angle @ardvark71 is coming from, and he does have a good point. If we had to change it i would go with DOG mode also, but a dog itself(at least here) usually refers to something lowly and not powerful. How about we do "DOG" for the keybinding and call it "Underdog Mode". :stuck_out_tongue:

[Luiji]

@sydneyjd I'm cool with Underdog Mode. :)

[Quintus]

To bring this insane issue to a conclusion, is everybody fine with me calling for a formal team vote on it? Everybody can then vote whatever he thinks is best, and we’ll just go with the majority result.

To make the vote a useful one, please give useful, nonsatirical alternative names that I can include in the voting statement so that we don’t have to go voting again when the decision falls in favour of renaming. We’ll just do it all in once.

Valete, Quintus

[ghost]

Am 07.10.2015 um 14:52 schrieb Marvin Gülker:

To bring this insane issue to a conclusion, is everybody fine with me calling for a formal team vote on it?

Sure.

[Bugsbane]

Bring it.

[sydneyjd]

Im still stuck on underdog mode. ;p Would we have copywrite issues,etc if we used it?

[Quintus]

Im still stuck on underdog mode. ;p Would we have copywrite issues,etc if we used it?

None I am aware of.

So I think the following choices are possible:

• Funky God Mode
• Funky god mode
• God Mode
• Dog Mode
• Underdog Mode

If no more suggestions are made until the weekend, I’ll issue a vote. Until then, please feel free to make further naming suggestions.

Vale, Quintus

[sydneyjd]

Another thought is Invincible Mode.

[datahead8888]

Omega Mode is another one, if we change the name

[ghost]

I like sydneyjd's suggestion, "Invincible Mode." :-)

[Bugsbane]

I like both invincible move and omega mode. If I had to choose, is choose the former.

Not such a big fan of dog mode and similar, because really, what do dogs have to do with what the mode actually does? Nothing. It's really not clear at all.

[sydneyjd]

Maybe its more of an American term, but im not sure. Back in the 1960 a Show called 'UnderDog' Was made about a superhero dog.

[Quintus]

Maybe its more of an American term, but im not sure. Back in the 1960 a Show called 'UnderDog' Was made about a superhero dog.

That’d made more for a subtile reminiscence than for a copyright infringement :-)

Vale, Quintus

[Quintus]

Not such a big fan of dog mode and similar, because really, what do dogs have to do with what the mode actually does?

Read “dog” reversed. :-)

Vale, Quintus

[datahead8888]

That’d made more for a subtile reminiscence than for a copyright infringement :-)

For Under Dog mode - I don't really think we should name our invincible mode off of a specific super hero.

As for dog mode, most people will be confused by this and not realized it's a reversal of the letters in "god".

[Quintus]

As for dog mode, most people will be confused by this and not realized it's a reversal of the letters in "god".

Cat mode

cat mode

cat(1) mode

[Quintus]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

                A N N O U N C E M E N T   O F   V O T E

2nd vote                                           October 11th, 2015

This is a formal vote announcement as per § 5 of the Voting Rules
(VotR), which are available online[1]. A vote that is accepted by the
team results in a final decision on a topic and determines how to
proceed.

Allowed to vote is any team member, which as per § 1 VotR is everybody
who is publically listed as a member of the “Secretchronicles”
organisation on GitHub.

Proponent
°°°°°°°°°

The vote was proposed by me, Quintus <quintus@quintilianus.eu>.

Vote Subject
°°°°°°°°°°°°

There was a discussion spawned in the issue tracker (ticket #441[2])
about whether or not to rename the special mode that makes Alex
invincible from “Funky God Mode” to something different. The main
argument was that the term might be perceived as an unnecessary and
maybe even blasphemic use of the name of God for highly religious
Christians. There has been a good number of pros and cons being
exchanged on the tracker, which I advise everyone to carefully read
before making a decision.

As it appears to be impossible to find a compromise (one can’t really
change the name only partly) and there are people arguing for both
options, I determined a vote was necessary to clear the matter up.

To ease things, this vote not only decides about whether to rename
current God Mode, but also about what to rename it to exactly to prevent
nececcisity of another voting procedure. By voting for option 1 below,
you indicate you want to keep the current naming, voting for any other
option is a vote against the current naming and in favour of another
name (the one you vote for).

Vote Options
°°°°°°°°°°°°

Option 1: Funky God Mode (i.e. keep the current naming)
Option 2: Funky god mode (“God” not capitalised)
Option 3: God Mode
Option 4: Dog Mode
Option 5: Invincible Mode
Option 6: Omega Mode
Option 7: Underdog Mode

Voting Period
°°°°°°°°°°°°°

The voting period starts on 2015-10-25 00:00 UTC, and it ends on
2015-11-01 23:59 UTC.

Procedure
°°°°°°°°°

On 2015-10-25 I will post the public Call for Votes (CfV) that
officially opens the voting period. After that you may vote by either
emailing your chosen option to the mailinglist, posting it to the forum
into the topic containing this announcement, or posting it on the
tracker in the ticket where this announcement was published. Any vote
given before that CfV was posted is ignored. The timespan of two weeks
between this announcement and the CfV is intended to give you time to
decide and prepare, to allow you making last efforts in convincing
others from your opinion, and to decide whether you request a covert
vote (see below).

If no single option receives the most votes (but multiple ones win), a
second vote is held with the set of options reduced to those options
that received the most votes.

If option 1 wins, the current name of “Funky God Mode” will not be
changed now or in the future. Any other option means changing the name
to whatever got the most votes.

Covert vote
°°°°°°°°°°°

Each team member has the right to request a covert vote. A covert vote
means that a technical procedure is employed that prevents everyone from
seeing how anyone else has voted. It is intended to prevent conflicts
within the team or between users and specific team members, and you
should only request this if you really think this is required. More
openness is better for the project.

If the request is made, it must be honoured. I will announce the
technical procedure in that case.

The request must be made before the Call for Votes has been posted, any
further requests for covert votes are ignored.

Quintus
TSC project lead.

[1]: https://github.com/Secretchronicles/documents/raw/master/votingrules/votingrules-2015-08-15.pdf
[2]: https://github.com/Secretchronicles/TSC/issues/441
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[Quintus]

The problem I have with “Invincible Mode” is that this might be confused with the effect the lemon powerup has, which basically is an “invincible effect” also. I’d thus rather go with “Omega Mode” I think, which I think is a pretty cool name.

Vale, Quintus

[Bugsbane]

this might be confused with the effect the lemon powerup has, which basically is an “invincible effect” also. I’d thus rather go with “Omega Mode”

Ok. I'm convinced. My vote is for Omega Mode.

[Quintus]

Beware :-)

The voting period starts on 2015-10-25 00:00 UTC, and it ends on 2015-11-01 23:59 UTC. [...] On 2015-10-25 I will post the public Call for Votes (CfV) that officially opens the voting period. [...] Any vote given before that CfV was posted is ignored.

:-)

[Bugsbane]

Ok... My vote will be for Omega Mode on the 25'th ;)

[datahead8888]

My vote will be for Omega Mode on the 25'th

At least I know my suggestion (if we rename it) was popular :P

[Bugsbane]

Maybe we should cash in on your popularity, and change it to "datahead mode"... ;P

[datahead8888]

There's nothing wrong with being happy if a suggestion is considered...

[ghost]

Who all is allowed to vote on this? I didn't really understand this from the notice.

[Bugsbane]

There's nothing wrong with being happy if a suggestion is considered...

Absolutely! I didn't intend to imply otherwise. Apologies if my joke came across that way.

[Quintus]

Who all is allowed to vote on this? I didn't really understand this from the notice.

Quote from the notice:

Allowed to vote is any team member, which as per § 1 VotR is everybody who is publically listed as a member of the “Secretchronicles” organisation on GitHub.

The document is available here, and the members of the Secretchronicles GitHub organisation are listed here on GitHub. The reasoning behind this is to have a definitive set of people that can vote which can easily determined by looking at one single piece of information so that there is no dispute about who can and who cannot vote. Also, everybody is free to earn team membership by contribution to the game and thereby gain a right to vote.

Vale, Quintus