More Specification Information

[olekukonko]

i want to say well done ... Good Job :+1: I think it would be nice to add more specification such as

• Supported Browser
• CSS version
• Possible Dependency (eg HTML5)
• Mobile Compatibility
• Performance
• etc

[jlukic]

Hey thanks! Semantic is no where near complete yet. Was trying to launch in a month or two but got posted to hacker news today so dealing with things as they lie.

I'm going to release more info on the spec shortly.

[ZlobnyiSerg]

Sorry for offtopic, just wanted to mention your great undertaking with Semantic-UI! Project looks very promising and really better than Bootstrap. Good job and good luck!

[jlukic]

Thank you! I'm glad to hear from so many people. It's a bit of a herculean undertaking as there are many moving parts, writing docs, keeping components up to date, creating specifications and developer tools, etc.

I'll be working in the next few weeks to come up with better processes to start directly involving more core contributors so we can start pushing things forward. Pretty excited!

[jlukic]

Some more bits about specification ideas..

I'm looking to use spec files like this https://github.com/jlukic/Semantic-UI/blob/master/spec/button.json

To automatically generate definitions (documentation) and grids of examples.

Specification files would give emmet style html "koans" like .ui.labeled.icon.button > i.icon to describe the required html structure for an element. As well as a specification of what variations and states are allowable.

The spec would also give sample text to fill nodes of content, to help generate demo content. So for example text: { '.button': ['Follow', 'Submit', 'Cancel'] }

Would let the doc generator to know that each button should be filled with a random choice of text from that array.

Ideally this would all be managed by a package manager, which would also manage css namespacing, and verifying css definitions match all requirements of the associated spec file.

[cody-somerville]

The details about the specification files seem to have disappeared from the semantics-ui website. Is this intentional?

[jlukic]

Yes. I've taken down anything that's not ready for prime time from docs. More information can be found on our trello boards.

[robertd]

Followup to my email sent to Jack about IE9 issues.

Update from Jack:

IE9+, Modern FF, Modern Chrome, Modern Safari

If you see layout issues in IE9 please report them on github. I'm going to do more thorough IE testing when we get to a stable major release (2-3 weeks), as its a bit premature with the almost daily updates now.

@jlukic Do you have Twitter acct setup for SemanticUI or personal one?

[jlukic]

Are you using IETester? That looks like an issue related to the stylesheets on the docs not appearing at all.

[robertd]

Hmmm... I'm not using IETester. I've tried on several diffident boxes that have IE9...same result.

But I've tried it also on IE11 with compatibility modes 9-10 and it worked just fine. Weird.

Can anyone else who has IE9 confirm this behavior? @olekukonko @ZlobnyiSerg @cody-somerville

[brigand]

@jlukic I ran browserstack on the homepage.

Windows 7 with IE9 looks just like @robertd's. It's way off. IE8 users will think there's nothing on the page, so we might want to make a separate stylesheet at some point which just fixes the layout, and can be included in an IE conditional comment. IE 10 and 11 look great.

See the screenshots

[Sivli-Embir]

Following up with issue #431. From what I can see, IE support for this project is looking to be IE8+? I often work with schools and medical facilities in the US. Many of them are using technology that requires IE6 or IE7 and have policies against installing other browsers. I personally dislike IE and backwards comparability but if you could add support going back to IE6 it would make this packed much more adoptable, and be a huge leg up on Bootstrap 3 (which I often can not use for this reason).

[deneuxa]

Supporting IE6 ? Are you crazy ? :)

[Sivli-Embir]

@deneuxa it was worth asking :) Honestly I am expecting that to be completely shot down.

More so it would be good to know where the line is being drawn and have that up front. Even if the support is not ready.

[jlukic]

@robertd No personal twitter or project twitter. Would be nice, but I am not a twitter user.

The latest browser support can always be found in the grunt file, currently

browsers: [
    'last 2 version',
    '> 1%',
    'opera 12.1',
    'safari 6',
    'ie 9',
    'bb 10',
    'android 4'
  ]

[emailroy2002]

bug report IE 9 - dropdown hangs IE 8 - all textfiles and buttons will not support "em", remondation switch to px or pt measurement. IE7 - same bug as IE8 IE6 - does anybody use 6??? o_0

[fvignals]

My Compaq Notebook Cpu:sx32 1ko ram 1ko dram under win95 use IE5 .... For old browser on old computer the best is the "print mode" because low hardware should load minimal ... The test on this computer is impossible on lot of websites (js : ie6, ie7, ie8; i9 , modernizer, shimHtml5, css : reset, ui, style ... )

[jlukic]

See browser support above, no support of IE8 or below. The web is moving forward...

[jlukic]

Requirements are now clear in docs

[tmsimont]

http://www.theie8countdown.com/

still 11% in North America... that's a lot.

As much as I'd love to ditch IE8 I can't just tell clients to forget about 1 in 10 of their user base. This is unfortunate and is probably a deal breaker for Semantic.

[jlukic]

Those numbers are way off.

Here's a report of Wikipedia's global traffic share for April 2015 http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2015-03/SquidReportClients.htm IE8 - 1.38% IE9 - 1.38%

W3CSchool is even lower http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_explorer.asp IE8 - 1.0% IE9 - 1.4%

[tmsimont]

On a site I'm working on, Google Analytics reports 5% of the daily users are IE8. Out of 20,000 hits per day, that's about 500. I can't ignore 500 visitors each day.

Do you have any suggestions on how to hack together an IE8 fix? Or is this too hopelessly far away from IE8 support?

Edit -- shitty math: that's 1,000 IE8 hits per day

[jlukic]

In 2.0 we are moving many components to flexbox which is not supported below IE10. So this might not be an adequate framework for your current needs.

The way I think about it, is if the framework can add more than 5% value over your current site, then it is a net positive over using a framework which supports older browsers.

Google has the same policy, supporting only the last and previous versions (IE11-10) of major browsers https://support.google.com/a/answer/33864?hl=en

[tmsimont]

OK, thanks.

Google's primary function and widest reach is its search engine. They certainly support IE6-8 in their search engine, even if some features don't work. Their modern google apps (drive, calendar, gmail, etc), however, are different, so they don't need to support every browser. But, gmail still works in IE8, even if there are some error messages.

I'd say that Semantic is a fine framework for modern apps, but is not something you'd want to use for a marketing site that is supposed to be accessible by all.

It's been a fun ride with Semantic but I think this is where I have to say goodbye. Maybe I'll have a use for it in the future. Thanks for the hard work

[deneuxa]

I'm using SUI on a very large audience website.

The thing you can do is simply to tell users to install a correct browser as this :

 <!--[if lte IE 8]>
      <p> Respect yourself, install a decent browser :) </p> 
 <![endif]-->

You can include a link to to the browser you want them to install or to this http://browsehappy.com/?locale=en

In fact I'm not even accepting IE9 on my website

Before I switched to SUI ( a year ago), I had a watch to my analytics, and IE <9 was like 1-2% of my users.

[tmsimont]

I suppose it's all about your target audience. I'm working on a site where a large part of visitors are viewing from within corporate networks that have IT departments that are stuck on IE8. It's usually because there is some internal portal that was built for IE 5 years ago. I've seen them. They are terrible and they make my life miserable. I loathe the message that says "Your browser is not supported. We recommend Internet Explorer 8"

[webyom]

The marketing share of IE8 in China is 25%, really disappointed.