Can't get some versions of Super Mario Duck Hunt to boot

[aaronperkins]

I have quite a few copies of Super Mario Duck Hunt (don't ask why). I've been having trouble getting some to load with the Slotmaster. I get blinking light or character ROM corruption. Classic signs of a bad pin connection. The games are clean and known to work obviously.

I've narrowed it down to the versions of the game that have the weird "L" shaped pins. These are very common with later revisions of the game. See the attached picture.

I'm using the recommended 72 pin connector from Aliexpress. My guess is there is some sort of physical compatibility issue? The pins are too short to make proper contact with the connector?

I think I have other games beside SMBDH that have similar pins so I'm going to keep troubleshooting to verify the issue, but I wanted to bring it up here in case someone has run into this or knows better.

[ShawMerlin]

Thank you for reaching out and providing the pictures.

Have you been able to look through and perform the 100% capability fix on your Slotmaster pcb’s?

I’m curious if some copies of duct hunt use the PPU /WE pin which is not connected properly on the 1.7 version of Slotmaster.

If you have done the compatibility fix and still seeing this issue, please reach out to my email. Merlin (dot) Shaw att gmail.

Thanks, -Merlin Shaw

On Saturday, April 27, 2024, Aaron Perkins @.***> wrote:

I have quite a few copies of Super Mario Duck Hunt (don't ask why). I've been having trouble getting some to load with the Slotmaster. I get blinking light or character ROM corruption. Classic signs of a bad pin connection. The games are clean and known to work obviously.

I've narrowed it down to the versions of the game that have the weird "L" shaped pins. These are very common with later revisions of the game. See the attached picture. PXL_20240427_141703302.jpg (view on web) https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/assets/1421394/7b5d89e2-38c2-460f-b8b0-c49620234915

I'm using the recommended 72 pin connector from Aliexpress. My guess is there is some sort of physical compatibility issue? The pins are too short to make proper contact with the connector?

I think I have other games beside SMBDH that have similar pins so I'm going to keep troubleshooting to verify the issue, but I wanted to bring it up here in case someone has run into this or knows better.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/issues/3, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AQZJHHUV4IGGQZ3VRTXPNCTY7OZBTAVCNFSM6AAAAABG4EPCFCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43ASLTON2WKOZSGI3DOMBTHE4DSOA . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

[ShawMerlin]

Here is a link to the 100% compatibility fix

https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/blob/main/Board%20V1.7%20100%25%20Compatibility%20Fix.md

On Saturday, April 27, 2024, Merlin Shaw @.***> wrote:

Thank you for reaching out and providing the pictures.

Have you been able to look through and perform the 100% capability fix on your Slotmaster pcb’s?

I’m curious if some copies of duct hunt use the PPU /WE pin which is not connected properly on the 1.7 version of Slotmaster.

If you have done the compatibility fix and still seeing this issue, please reach out to my email. Merlin (dot) Shaw att gmail.

Thanks, -Merlin Shaw

On Saturday, April 27, 2024, Aaron Perkins @.***> wrote:

I have quite a few copies of Super Mario Duck Hunt (don't ask why). I've been having trouble getting some to load with the Slotmaster. I get blinking light or character ROM corruption. Classic signs of a bad pin connection. The games are clean and known to work obviously.

I've narrowed it down to the versions of the game that have the weird "L" shaped pins. These are very common with later revisions of the game. See the attached picture. PXL_20240427_141703302.jpg (view on web) https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/assets/1421394/7b5d89e2-38c2-460f-b8b0-c49620234915

I'm using the recommended 72 pin connector from Aliexpress. My guess is there is some sort of physical compatibility issue? The pins are too short to make proper contact with the connector?

I think I have other games beside SMBDH that have similar pins so I'm going to keep troubleshooting to verify the issue, but I wanted to bring it up here in case someone has run into this or knows better.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/issues/3, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AQZJHHUV4IGGQZ3VRTXPNCTY7OZBTAVCNFSM6AAAAABG4EPCFCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43ASLTON2WKOZSGI3DOMBTHE4DSOA . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

[ShawMerlin]

Doing some research on these carts with the L pads. It does seem that Nintendo changed the carts in order to counter the clone units that were being developed. Since we did not design that 72 pin connector, there might not be a solution for games with the L pads.

I would still check pin 15 & 56 on the CART to see if they are present or not.

[aaronperkins]

Yeah I did the compatibly fix 1st thing. Didn't help. Nintendo messing with the pad design to stop counterfeit sounds like something they would do. I wonder if there are 72 pin connectors that work. I'll have to do some research. Thanks!

[ShawMerlin]

If you do find any other 72 pin connectors out there, please reach out and let us know. The biggest issue is they have to be 2.5mm pitch while most connectors out there are 2.54mm pitch.

So it has been very hard to find something compatible and I think we are lucky enough to have these AliExpress ones. But I am always 100% open to better options so if you find something. Ring the bell. :)

Thanks, -Merlin Shaw

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 11:00 AM Aaron Perkins @.***> wrote:

Yeah I did the compatibly fix 1st thing. Didn't help. Nintendo messing with the pad design to stop counterfeit sounds like something they would do. I wonder if there are 72 pin connectors that work. I'll have to do some research. Thanks!

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/issues/3#issuecomment-2081095733, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AQZJHHU2IKRPEVBCFSSWJBLY7PKTJAVCNFSM6AAAAABG4EPCFCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDAOBRGA4TKNZTGM . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

[aaronperkins]

Found another game with short pads that won't work. This one is Dragon Warrior.

I confirmed with a multimeter no continuity between the short pads and the connector.

[ShawMerlin]

Do you believe it’s every Dragon Warrior game cartridge or just the later ones sold?

I can start a list of non compatible games on th le GitHub just so people can realize that it’s not 100% compatible.

Thanks, -Merlin Shaw

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 4:13 PM Aaron Perkins @.***> wrote:

Found a other game with short pads that won't work. This one is Dragon Warrior. PXL_20240427_220208128.jpg (view on web) https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/assets/1421394/e88c81e6-77f2-4b24-aa98-bd7bd0c1b443

I confirmed with a multimeter no continuity between the short pads and the connector.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/issues/3#issuecomment-2081214799, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AQZJHHXA2YEH6CF6YO7KECLY7QPJPAVCNFSM6AAAAABG4EPCFCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDAOBRGIYTINZZHE . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

[aaronperkins]

I have two copies of Dragon Warrior and they both have the same board with the short pads.

[ShawMerlin]

I am going to get a copy of Dragon warrior to help visualize this for myself. Most likely there won’t be a solution quickly but I will add this game to the potential issue list.

Thanks, -Merlin Shaw

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 5:42 PM Aaron Perkins @.***> wrote:

I have two copies of Dragon Warrior and they both have the same board with the short pads.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ShawMerlin/NES-Slotmaster/issues/3#issuecomment-2081251207, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AQZJHHTMZEWFJGTQ7FKIVCTY7QZXVAVCNFSM6AAAAABG4EPCFCVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDAOBRGI2TCMRQG4 . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

[aaronperkins]

Found this potential solution. Going to try it when I have a chance. https://github.com/sanni/cartreader/issues/632

[elgarlic]

Just out of curiosity, do these PCBs work in a Game Genie? Wondering for the sake of a stopgap fix (if it works) as well as whether this was another possible motivation for the design (if it doesn't).

[aaronperkins]

Not sure, I do have a Game Genie, I'll give it a try and let you know.

[aaronperkins]

Quick update.

Cutting the tabs off the 72 pin connector does seem to fix the issue, though I still wouldn't call the connection perfect. Sometimes the cart needs a little wiggle to get it working. Here are some pictures:

I used the tabs I cut off to space the screws otherwise they were now too long.

The game genie does also solve the problem as a work around:

You can see the game genie's connector allows the cart to slide back more compared to the slotmaster.

Finally I found another game with the same issue: This one is Donkey Kong Classics

[ShawMerlin]

thank you @aaronperkins for the pictures and analysis!! I will update our known issue document with Donkey Kong Classics as could be susceptible.

Interesting observation with cutting off the tabs, I should get my Dragon Warrior NES Cartridge this weekend and hope to get one of these short pad styles.

I will add your notes that cutting that tab might help. I still wonder though if it's worth the effort when that tab having the screw hold it tight, helps the connector not pull so much on the back soldered pins. Without that extra support, it might lead to some solder joints breaking in the future. Just something to consider.

Thanks again!!

[aaronperkins]

I have an old NES on my bench I use to test games. It gets a lot of cart inserts. We'll see how the tabless configuration works out.

I refurbish these consoles and really want to offer SlotMaster as an optional upgrade. If the games that didn't work were obscure I'd leave the tabs in, but I imagine the first cart my customers are going to try is SMB/DH.

Anyway, really appreciate the project and all the work you've put into this! Thanks again!

[ShawMerlin]

Great points. I'm sure if folks are worried about the solder joints they could just use epoxy around the connector which would make it one solid piece. It wouldn't be as serviceable in the future but these are cheap enough that just replacing it quickly wouldn't be a big deal at all.

I'm curious what percentage of SMB/DH games have this edge. I have 2 copies and both of mine are normal. I wish there was more information out there about these.

[aaronperkins]

Did I mentioned I had a quite a few copies? 😉

Of the 17 copies I have 11 have the short pads.

[ShawMerlin]

That is quite a sample pool :) I will note on the issue page that most SMB/DH were found with the short pads.

[ShawMerlin]

Ugg, my copy of Dragon Warrior that I ordered off eBay has the normal pads. @aaronperkins, would you let me purchase one of your SMB/DH with the short pads?

[aaronperkins]

I'll donate one to the project as a thank you. I'll send you an email to get shipping information.

[J-DSilva]

FWIW, I checked my pile of cart PCBs, and of my 8 Mario/Duck hunts only 3 have short pads.

At the top of that picture are PCBs I also found of a Bases Loaded and a repro I made years ago on an UNROM board that had short pads (I don't remember what I sacrificed for it). I'm working on my own project that involves these same replacement 72 pin connectors and I can say that the repro cart does work since I just had it in there the other day. But that was without a shell on it... Which would let it get deeper into the connector in the same way cutting the tabs off would. But that was before I was looking at this issue so I wasn't playing attention to that sort of thing.

I have two DW carts and both have short pins.

This all got me a bit curious so I started taking a look at the NES Cart DB https://nescartdb.com to see if there was an easy way to check things there. I got through # and A and found the pictures there showed short pins on 1942 and Adventures of Dino Riki. I checked against my cart and my copy of 1942 (5 Screw) has long pins, my Dino Riki has short.

1942: https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/305/1942 Dino Riki: https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/342/adventures-of-dino-riki

Merlin, my new 1.8 PCBs are in transit right now and should arrive by Wednesday. I can help test out more carts if needed.

[ShawMerlin]

Thanks @J-DSilva - I have a few ideas in the oven for improving this and will hopefully be able to work on it more after we get the everdrive issues fixed.

I do appreciate all of your support and help.

Thanks, -Merlin Shaw

[WarlordZen]

I just found a Mario 2 with the short pads. Oh course it was the first cart I tried in the slot master.

[KPackratt2k]

Has anyone found any PCB mount 72-pin connectors that work with Slotmaster and don't have this issue yet? I'd really like to replace my NES 72-pin connector with something better than the original mechanism, but I don't want to lose compatibility with certain games. Looks like the only way around this so far (besides using the Game Genie or a 72-to-60 pin adapter coupled with the opposite) would be to salvage the 72-pin connector from a clone console and use it in Slotmaster, provided it's tall enough to make contact with the short pins and is the correct pitch (2.50mm rather than 2.54mm).