Perception / Human Racial

[henhouse]

Original report by Anonymous.

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hello

what about removing ur fkin nerf about human racial. it works like 1 time on 100tries. ppl doesnt give a shit about this racial because it doesnt work at all. im pretty sure it got nerfed cuz it was really OP on AT and ppl complained about it or idk but thanks to create a human a play once in ur life and spamm games, u'll get it by urself. don't you know that perception should allow u to see ppl clearly like at least 30-40yards away ? because here, no one gives a fuck. even druid can get u before u see him haha. im really fed up so i write it here. it is almost disrespecteful to see how other rogues are rushing ur teammate cuz they know they cant be find. (and they dont even prevanish lmao, but well ur vanish is a joke too on here so I will talk about it right now.)

wlcome to the new dev if there is one and happy new year. pce

[henhouse]

Original comment by Darken_Ral (Bitbucket: 557058:31e8645c-27f9-45cb-b8e2-a7b9b61d07dc, ).

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don't you know that perception should allow u to see ppl clearly like at least 30-40yards away ?

HUMAN Racial Ability - Perception (lasts 20 seconds, 3 minute cooldown) +50 stealth detection

oh wow pls

[henhouse]

^ Nothing except the vanish mod can juke the human perception. Yes it isn't working on this server. You should see stealthed players like if they had 10 levels less than you. Here, the perception is pretty much like the passive racial from 3.3.5

I think that even the fellhunter detection buff is better than the human racial atm.

[henhouse]

Original comment by Darken_Ral (Bitbucket: 557058:31e8645c-27f9-45cb-b8e2-a7b9b61d07dc, ).

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you're kinda new to wow, yeah? :D you obviously don't understand what you're talking about. perception gives you +50 stealth detection points wich is +10 yards. it works perfect for me and for everyone else on this server. conversely, the problem with stealth is that you can detect from much longer distance than you should.

[henhouse]

I quoted CC forums, 'im New to theorycrafting stuff yeah, thats's not my thing. But i'm open minded. Do you mean that 5 stealth detection point, which means 1 level more, = 1 yard? Or the level doesnt matter? cuz I read that many times on internet. And according to my proper experience of the human racial, on old AT, this is just a joke on SF, and im finally not sure that it is worth using this ability or only with a lock then for the +30 stealth detection. Im also feeling something is wrong but my pov is maybe screwd by my past AT experience

[henhouse]

Original comment by Darken_Ral (Bitbucket: 557058:31e8645c-27f9-45cb-b8e2-a7b9b61d07dc, ).

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Do you mean that 5 stealth detection point, which means 1 level more, = 1 yard?

yes, you are completely right here

here's some info about stealth for you:

5 points of stealth detection raises your stealth detection by 1 level. So a level 70 player with 10 points of stealth detection can see stealthed targets as if he were a level 72 player. Stealth works the same way. 5 points of stealth raises your effective stealth by 1 level. Rogues and druids can both spend talent points to get 15 points of increased stealth, raising their effective stealth by 3 levels.

and some more:

Stealth decreases the range at which players and mobs can see you (and thus, react). Druids have an invisible "stealth skill" called Subtlety that doesn't appear on their character sheet and always increases by 5 for each level (thus at level 70 you have a base Subtlety skill of 350). All characters also have a Stealth Detection skill, which also doesn't appear on their character sheet and always increases by 5 for each level (thus at level 70 you have a base Stealth Detection skill of 350).

At equal levels of Subtlety and Stealth Detection, a stealthed character can be seen 5 yards away. Each 5 points of skill changes that range by 1 yard either way, up to a maximum of 10 yards and a minimum of 1 yard. So for example:

• If a stealthed cat has a Subtlety of 350, a Stealth Detection of 340 could only see him 3 yards away.
• If a stealthed cat has a Subtlety of 350, a Stealth Detection of 365 could see him 8 yards away.
• If a stealthed cat has a Subtlety of 5, a Stealth Detection of 400 could see him 10 yards away.

Keep in mind that Stealth Detection only works for your frontal 180 degree cone. A level 1 cat could sneak up on a level 70 human warlock with Perception popped, Hyper-Vision Goggles, a Catseye Elixir, and a Felhunter out, and still be undetected as long as the cat approached from behind.

you can read more about stealth here, but i already quoted for you main parts of those links: http://wow.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Stealth&oldid=1421708 http://www.wowhead.com/item=10501/catseye-ultra-goggles#comments (in the comments; you can find how much subtlety / detection gives you most of the items that affects it) http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=7506/druid-guide-part-1-overview-class-mechanics-leveling (in the end of the guide)

[henhouse]

interesting. So I guess the problem is somewhere else. because I play human since a long time and I can't see the point of perception, when it works that way. I dont tell perception is wrong, maybe the problem is about stealth detection or idk. Like i said, i'm a bad theorycrafter/tester

Anyway, I recently talked with another SF player, and CCforumreader. he throw me that link : https://github.com/ccshiro/cc-buglist/issues/2157 And as you can see the lock with perception is able to detect a rogue who's very far. like out of range.

[henhouse]

Original comment by Darken_Ral (Bitbucket: 557058:31e8645c-27f9-45cb-b8e2-a7b9b61d07dc, ).

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you can't really say that rogue standing at the wall on that video, i can barely see anything there. speed+very bad quality, even slowing down the speed doesn't really helps alot. i would rather say you can see a rogue's flag who's close to the edge of the rise and not the rogue at the wall. paranoia+perception gives you +16 yards to your base detection. you also can't see lock's helm, it might be engineering goggles. someone might correct me here, but AFAIK stealth detect is synchronised on the server, every X seconds it checks if you can see your opponent. if you detected him - you'll see him till the next check. so if you run away from a rogue after you detected him - sometimes you'll see him from longer distance than your detection allows you.

and the guy who tested this on CC is just cheating / trolling or he just don't know how stealth detection works. he puts rogue much closer to the wall, after he's trying to detect a rogue behind his back (technically it's his side but it's already not frontal 180 degree cone). he's turning all the time, not allowing himself to actually detect rogue. you can't test stealth detection like this, those tests requires static situation. stealth detection takes some time and if you run all the time - you'll never find out real range of your detection.

I can't see the point of perception, when it works that way.

it gives your rogue almost 100% chance to see enemy rogue first => first shs-sap / opener. but ofc it's not "I WIN" button against stealth teams. definately not even close to what arena shadow sight gives you. and yes, perception is awesome for a rogue and maybe a warlock with paranoia, other classes doesn't benefit from it that much.

edit: it's shs rogue with deadly poison on arena :D and his moves... he's incredibly stupid. i'm pretty sure he got no Master of Deception talent and thus can be detected from even longer distance)

[henhouse]

This isnt a test video but a retail movie, according to the Guy. And if u slowmo 25% you can see it properly.

Every X seconds it checks if you can see your opponent. if you detected him - you'll see him till the next check

Yes I knew that part

Btw I read wowhead forums about tbc racial and pol were more complaining about shadowmeld than perception but the ppl who talked about it were really describing it as an op button, Giving all openers. I know that 2007-2008 players were not the same tryhards that some SF players who mostly know what they are queuing against before to enter in arenas (cuz the playerbase is very low and you only q one team 3-4times in a row before to get another one, but well..) When you watch hydra 4, his rog has always the first sap versus horde rmp for example. Perception really not allow anything atm on the server . It is still rng to find à steathed opp.

http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=30586.4 This topic reveals, without proofs I know, how ppl were thinking about perception

[henhouse]

Original comment by Darken_Ral (Bitbucket: 557058:31e8645c-27f9-45cb-b8e2-a7b9b61d07dc, ).

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nono, i'm talking about video of his test on CC, where he's trying to reproduce same on CC server. the one in the end of his post.

the ppl who talked about it were really describing it as an op button, Giving all openers.

When you watch hydra 4, his rog has always the first sap versus horde rmp for example.

that's exactly what i said, and that's exactly what you got on this server.

[henhouse]

Well I play sometimes double human rogue. We share the map and sprint (and I hate wasting this cd like that) during the perception to ensize the explored zone with perception, and I can tell you that I can barely find people. It happens, sometimes.. Rarely. Again it is probably due to that ppl know what they are queuing against here and are probably hiding themselves very well.