[0.9] Potential demographics exploit idea

[ThePiachu]

So I was thinking about the current government buildings and I think I came up with a small potential exploit for it.

Basically, if you get to be a dictator in the game for a bit, you can give yourself a high wage that would take a bit of work to undo.

So you start a government, give yourself the power to do anything early in the game when people are likely to just accept it. Then you use your power of creating instant demographics to create a demographic of just yourself, giving yourself a high wage. You then take your building that grants you the demographic and bury it somewhere nobody can reach (like down a mine shaft on a property you own and remove access to it from anyone.

Because the demographic AFAIK is tied to that building, nobody can change it without having access to that building. In order to undo the demographic, someone would have to put a law through to authorise themselves to your property and then locate the government building and propose a change to that demographic, which could be a big feat.

Perhaps it would be better if things like demographics and so on were shared between all buildings of the same type so you could propose changes to any demographics if you have access to any of the buildings, rather than tying them to the specific building...

[SlayksWood]

If people allowed this, why not? People should be aware of what they are voting for. This isn't a mindless game. If they allow you to apply a law on paying you (not elected title), then this is not a game problem.

[D3nnis3n]

The issue is not a possible exploit but this:

So you start a government, give yourself the power to do anything early in the game when people are likely to just accept it.

That's the fault. I can see why people do that on playtest, but even there they shouldn't.

[ThePiachu]

Even if you don't start with that, you usually have some roles that can change demographics without elections, which could be exploited in a similar fashion, only a bit later.

[trickenso]

Even if you don't start with that, you usually have some roles that can change demographics without elections, which could be exploited in a similar fashion, only a bit later.

Then don't set up your constitution like this?

If you're foolish enough to elect dictators, you should reap commensurate rewards. There's nothing forcing any particular role to have absolute executive power.

[D3nnis3n]

If you're foolish enough to elect dictators, you should reap commensurate rewards. There's nothing forcing any particular role to have absolute executive power.

Full ACK. Government is something that needs to be thought of, not rushed. Especially on bigger community servers you can plan out before in regards to how the gov should look, without assigning posts. You never should vote someone dictator. If you do that in real life he might as well simply steal all money and you have nothing you can do against. It's one of the possible consequences you must face for making such a bad decision regarding basic law.

Afaik we have methods to unelect and throw out people. Even courts can be done. There is ever a way to get a constitution that works and prevents people from doing shit - as long as you include checks and balances.

[trickenso]

You never should vote someone dictator. If you do that in real life he might as well simply steal all money and you have nothing you can do against.

Sounds like a fun mess to try and get yourself out of, to be honest. Perfect governance could get dull... Is there a coup mechanic? 😝

It's one of the possible consequences you must face for making such a bad decision regarding basic law.

Tragedy of the Commons, the game - right? This is worth it just to counter the current prevailing wind of 'X country's leader should have more power', 'all these political controls are pointless', 'having an opposition party just creates disagreement for no reason', 'what do we need elections for, anyway?' and so on... If one person learns this lesson then it's worth it, as far as I'm concerned.

Potential demographics exploit

Not exploit: gameplay.

[ThePiachu]

Well, it's a little bit of an exploit in a sense that "we're bound by this law that we can't change because it's buried on the bottom of the sea and digging it out would be too much of a hassle. If you could remove the demographic from any of the census bureaus, it wouldn't be an exploit.

[trickenso]

So make a law governing the placement of government buildings, then? Pretty easy to prevent their removal, crafting or placement except by vote. Or prevent it altogether, if you don't think it would be necessary to do these things regularly - I can't imagine it would be necessary in general to do it more than once.

A meaningfully inconvenient gameplay feature is not necessarily an exploit - it's usually a lesson. The systems to protect against this already exist in the game, as far as I can tell.

[johnkslg]

A secret underground demographic bunker from which the elite rule the world's economy?! Sounds a little too accurate maybe :D

There should still be ways to deal with this: make an executive order to declaim the property, find and remove it. Ill think about how to make things like this controllable in the cities update we do down the road. Lets move to suggestions for now.

[trickenso]

There should still be ways to deal with this: make an executive order to declaim the property, find and remove it. Ill think about how to make things like this controllable in the cities update we do down the road.

Maybe this could be part of the justice system? A law could theoretically exist, but you could decide not to enforce it. Having a weird law exist on paper doesn't force a country to follow it if everyone agrees not to. Unless you have a really good lawyer.

An executive order or other emergency action or vote to nullify an inconvenient law would probably be simpler and more direct, though.