[Core, Spell, Mechanic] Cleaves - Range is too small

[ghost]

Decription: An issue with Warrior's Cleave, resulting in a too small Cleave Range.

How it works: Cleave Range is too small. https://gfycat.com/enchantedflamboyantbasilisk

How it should work: It's supposed to be much bigger.

Source (you should point out proofs of your report, please give us some source): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2nV3pRDS0&t=3m40s (TBC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WnaIKa6weY&feature=youtu.be&t=1m59s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYHEzHuld8&feature=youtu.be&t=39 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5KLetVQn38&feature=youtu.be&t=1m17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qBKWWbRC4&feature=youtu.be&t=120 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmwUI5-lDWo&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYhPEjWZDik&feature=youtu.be&t=50s (Cata pre-patch)

Steps to reproduce:

1. Have 2+ Targets at the ready;
2. Use Cleave;
3. Repeat with wider and wider gaps between the Targets.

Easiest way to reproduce would be to copy this -- which is what I did under "How it works". Additionally, you can test as done in any of the other videos -- you should get no Secondary Target Cleave hits as done in any of them, 'cause the Range is too short here. Not sure if it's because perhaps Cleave hits from the center of Hitboxes instead of their edge, or some sort of wrong cone width, but something's definitely wrong here.

Additional information:

Cleave Spell IDs:

https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=845 https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=7369 https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=11608 https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=11609 https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=20569 https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=25231 https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=47519 https://db.darkwizard.pl/?spell=47520

[Riztazz]

Interesting, i wonder which additional sizes come in play when blizzard calculates those

[styxel]

I have had the same feeling with swipe in cat form but im not 100% sure. Like on anub 25man i cant swipe the 2 adds +boss unless they areclike really on top of each other or In heroic Dungeons u have To reposition urself all the time because your swipe only hits 1 target for some reason and this results In shit aoe dps often because ur wasting all that energy for 1 hit

[ghost]

Interesting, i wonder which additional sizes come in play when blizzard calculates those

I believe this -- as with other AoE (such as PBAoE) -- depends on sizes and something regarded to as "Combat Reach" or "Melee Reach". For example as you can see in the Halion timestamps, it's a big Dragon Boss with a huge Hitbox, and you can additionally hit from so far past that Hitbox that you can make Twilight Cutters seem a joke to Melee, and you can see how Cleaves work on him and off him to surrounding Living Blazes (observe any Whirlwinds happening too, for reference -- that's a PBAoE). The Anub'arak example is similar.

This may or may not be useful, but I used this info as referenced here using the help of a TC report I linked there -- it's possible this may be applied to other AOEs like Cleave as well, but who knows -- if it helps pinpoint this, then good. It's only clear that things are wrong.

I have had the same feeling with swipe in cat form but im not 100% sure. Like on anub 25man i cant swipe the 2 adds +boss unless they areclike really on top of each other or In heroic Dungeons u have To reposition urself all the time because your swipe only hits 1 target for some reason and this results In shit aoe dps often because ur wasting all that energy for 1 hit

Hmmm, so maybe this affects Cleaves as a whole, rather than being merely Warrior-related. The fact you mentioned that they need to be on top of each-other -- it seems to support my theory that it's taking it from the center of Hitboxes rather than the edges, and that's considering those Hitboxes can be huge depending on what you're fighting. So, as a result, fighting huge Bosses can actually be a hindrance for Cleaves.

Seeing as how far those Cleaves can go may also mean that indeed there's Caster/Target sizes and Combat/Melee Reach of both accounted for, otherwise all those big Targets would impose issues and force people to re-Target to avoid messing up.

[styxel]

https://youtu.be/3YxJWuQ6wHo at 0.25 In the video i bet this isnt possible on Frosthold but im not sure. But yea something If definately wrong. i tested something and this happened https://gyazo.com/49f7f6200c86eb1aa564bd3ae2751872 https://gyazo.com/9eb95da9e12da2b7c9dc9b32bb0a617b i was not able to make swipe hit bot of these no matter where is stood not sure if it should be possible these are in orgrimmar dummys.

[ghost]

This and this (despite being v4.0.1) indicate it should be possible. Cleave Range seems to have been consistent for a long time. They (and some of the other provided examples) also show that it is possible for Cleave to hit Secondary Targets which are out of your Melee Range.

[styxel]

https://gyazo.com/78e09fd4c7fcf784933c08cfcef70330 able to hit everything with melee but swipe only hits the mid one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YxJWuQ6wHo same dummies as on that video and pretty much the same spot https://gyazo.com/4360c0339ab67b1858e39c2ad1303295

[ghost]

Good showcase there. That should've worked, like in the original video showcasing Swipe on Theramore Dummies.

Also see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnUSYSjoRTk&t=11m40s The Secondary Targets are way-off from the Warrior's own Melee Range, but get hit by Cleave with the Main Targets as reference. The way it looks from this PoV is it seems to take out from the edge of something's Hitbox, see if something else is within its Combat/Melee Range using its own Hitbox edge as well, resulting in this massive extension. At least, that's how it sounds if put logically.

It seems Cleaves' jumps are Target-based -- they can bounce from one to the other and exceed your own Melee Range to any and all Secondary Targets, so long as the STs are close to the MTs.

This explains f.ex. hitting Halion with Cleave as the Main Target and it hitting Living Blazes behind Halion, but still in front of you, proving that they have to be connected to the Main Target to work (resulting in STs getting hit by Cleave bounces off the MTs while you are too far from the STs), as well as that your facing direction is also important - - those Cleaves wouldn't have hit if the Living Blazes weren't in front of the Warrior.

Melee Reach also seems to be accounted for (the Range at which you can hit/be hit from in Melee) -- this is something that makes it beneficial to use big Targets (like Halion) to use Cleaves to connect to Secondary Targets, as he has a long Range from which he can hit/be hit -- see Warrior's PoV while hitting Halion and avoiding Twilight Cutters here.

Using Cleave on a Main Target's Hitbox edge with a big Melee Reach like that while a Secondary Target also with a big Melee Reach is close enough to connect, would result in some pretty-far-reaching Cleave bounces.

[blackhodown]

This is the same for Heart Strike on Blood DKs. Hitbox is absurdly tiny, much smaller than it is supposed to be.

[ghost]

So it seems to affect Cleaves in general. Gonna change title.

[ghost]

@styxel Provide some quick Bear Swipe and Maul test results to add to this if you can.

I'll go respec to Prot to test Improved Revenge when I can.

[styxel]

i will later swipe bear has higher range than cat though being 8 yards when swipe cat is 5

[styxel]

https://gyazo.com/c1458e1a19cfa6790dde9adc340f3afb maul likes to hit the one in the back and swipe the target next to it https://gyazo.com/02b00d6f708ef12e6fd60c07daceb74e that one in the top right is really far but for some reason it hits there but not to the left https://gyazo.com/8d560a80163ca8659f3dfd949f652b78 maul goes all the way there aswel but swipe goes only for the left one idk : }

[ghost]

Well that's weird.

I went back to those Ironforge Dummies and kept trying to align Cleaves on them -- worked only once in a very-finicky spot and angle, which I then couldn't reproduce anymore because I don't even know how I pulled it off. I think -- for Cleaves with facing/angle requirements -- the width of the angle where you're facing is screwed here.

Same issue with Improved Revenge as said above.

Sweeping Strikes works fine though -- its reach is far (sometimes beyond my Melee Range on the Secondary Target), as intended, and that's a Cleave which works differently (bounce reference is you, no facing/angle requirements). Speaking of, a test with Seal of Command might prove useful.

[ghost]

Update: There definitely seems to be an issue with the angle.

See this: https://gfycat.com/infiniteradiantbunny

The angle is definitely narrower than intended -- compare with the provided evidence as to how it worked on Retail. It looks to be 180 degrees (entire frontal arc), while here it's evidently less than that.

Gonna see if I can go test with Targets with big Hitboxes together with Targets with small ones somewhere out in the world, if possible -- need to confirm this:

Like on anub 25man i cant swipe the 2 adds +boss unless they areclike really on top of each other

Update: So it's pretty much confirmed that Cleaves on Targets with huge Hitboxes are screwed to hell and back -- not at all as seen in the linked Retail videos (Halion, Anub'arak f.ex.). In fact, they're pretty friggin' terrible. See here: https://gfycat.com/delayedmediumdeer Kept hitting only the big guy. The DMG on the Abom was from Rend, while the random DMG on the Adept was from Spell Reflect. https://gfycat.com/ultimatekindheartedkitty Notice how the Dying Soldier way-back got hit and killed by Cleave off the big guy -- nothing else got hit by it whatsoever at any time. The Dying Soldier happened to be near the very center of the big guy's shown Hitbox. This pretty much confirms that here, it's taken from the center of the Hitbox, rather than from its edge. Very gamebreaking especially in big Boss encounters, since as @styxel said, any other Targets need to pretty much be on top to be Cleaved.

[Riztazz]

Those adjectives are unnecessary. I see the code related to those spells and i'm pretty sure it fixes it but gotta test a few cases first, if everything is fine then it will be live on monday

[Riztazz]

Still got some issues i have to take care of, postponed till tomorrow. This one is weird..

[Riztazz]

That fury warrior DPSing in orgrimmar, any chance we could get a similar video where he cleaves but warrior is facing the other dummy (on the left)? That would confirm a lot of things.

Dummy has a combat reach of 2.5y, so now the main question is, how big is cleave radius excluding combat reach and what if creature has gigantic combat reach, some has them far exceeding their bounding box (circle around creature)

TC has base cleave radius of 5y, we have base of 8y, corecraft had that at 10y as base. So assuming combat reach is added then 5y is wrong, dummies would never get hit in this case. 8y and 10y covers both dummies (left and right) depending on facing. And what if creature has combat reach of 30yards, just because, should it hit a creature 38y from center of the target? My guess is that combat reach can't exceed base radius of a spell, so additional yards would get cut to 8y if reach exceeds 8

[ghost]

That fury warrior DPSing in orgrimmar, any chance we could get a similar video where he cleaves but warrior is facing the other dummy (on the left)? That would confirm a lot of things.

Will try, but that alone was difficult to find -- something as specific as that might be even moreso.

Dummy has a combat reach of 2.5y, so now the main question is, how big is cleave radius excluding combat reach and what if creature has gigantic combat reach, some has them far exceeding their bounding box (circle around creature)

The provided Halion videos show this interaction -- you can watch a few seconds before/after the posted timestamps to see Landsoul repositioning and still being able to Cleave and have it reach around. See Halion's Hitbox, yet see how far Landsoul is able to hit from and land proper Cleaves with changes in position and facing angle.

TC has base cleave radius of 5y, we have base of 8y, corecraft had that at 10y as base. So assuming combat reach is added then 5y is wrong, dummies would never get hit in this case. 8y and 10y covers both dummies (left and right) depending on facing.

TC's is definitely wrong, exactly for the reason you pointed out, especially given the videos for comparison. Now we need to see if it's 8yd or 10yd.

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WnaIKa6weY&feature=youtu.be&t=1m59s might be able to provide some more insight if I go to the same spot and check how far that other Dummy would be from me.

And what if creature has combat reach of 30yards, just because, should it hit a creature 38y from center of the target? My guess is that combat reach can't exceed base radius of a spell, so additional yards would get cut to 8y if reach exceeds 8

Is there a Mob with a ridiculously-long Combat Reach than Halion's/Sindragosa's, perhaps? I could try to find some footage with it if there is and see how Cleaves interact with it.

[Riztazz]

There is a few of creatures that are small but have gigantic combat reaches for whatever reason :P

ie. really small creature (like cat) might have combat reach of 7

list of models that have combat_reach bigger than 15
(10244, 20);
(11121, 20);
(11380, 17);
(11460, 17);
(15363, 18);
(15364, 18);
(15365, 18);
(15366, 18);
(15473, 17.5);
(15509, 18.75);
(15786, 25);
(15928, 20.01);
(16033, 22);
(18155, 17.5);
(18671, 20);
(19270, 27.5);
(19716, 20);
(20127, 27);
(20216, 22);
(20477, 20);
(21145, 18);
(22355, 22);
(22711, 18);
(22965, 17.5);
(23344, 18);
(21603, 30);
(23704, 25);
(23970, 77);
(24272, 16.5);
(24808, 35);
(24934, 35);
(26270, 30);
(26534, 22.5);
(26536, 20);
(26752, 20);
(27034, 20);
(27093, 50);
(27176, 40);
(27338, 20);
(27570, 20);
(27979, 18);
(28638, 22);
(28817, 20);
(28821, 25);
(28822, 25);
(28887, 22.5);
(28951, 30);
(29104, 20);
(29487, 33);
(30318, 20);
(30362, 18.75);
(30652, 19.5);
(31119, 20.25);
(31952, 18);

This is list of creatures that have reach higher than 15, 1st value is displayId (NOT ENTRY!!!) and second value is combat reach

edit: As far as dudu video goes, from the vid at least - it seems like similar distance to those in OG :( Any chance someone could record a vid on current retail?

[ghost]

Erm, not sure how that list really helps me -- would rather have an NPC ID list with high Combat Reach, so I can find what they actually are and then trace each and every one like that via footage with possible Cleaves.

[Riztazz]

Filter it out via wowhead? :P

List of creatures that have combat reach either 8 or higher than 8. Scroll down to have a list of entries and names of creatures that actually use that displayid. ignore creatures with number in their name (ie. Lich king (1)) DisplayId || Combat reach

(800, 9);
(2718, 10);
(2719, 10);
(2837, 10);
(4872, 10);
(7271, 15);
(8570, 14);
(9832, 10);
(10193, 12);
(10244, 20);
(11121, 20);
(11380, 17);
(11460, 17);
(12869, 10);
(13992, 13);
(14173, 12);
(14367, 9);
(14992, 14);
(15288, 8.5);
(15295, 10.5);
(15345, 12);
(15363, 18);
(15364, 18);
(15365, 18);
(15366, 18);
(15392, 9);
(15432, 12.5);
(15473, 17.5);
(15509, 18.75);
(15556, 15);
(15686, 10);
(15786, 25);
(15928, 20.01);
(15931, 10);
(15945, 10);
(15948, 10);
(16033, 22);
(16064, 12);
(16137, 10);
(16630, 15);
(17180, 8.004);
(17205, 10);
(17228, 10.5);
(17345, 10);
(17445, 12.5);
(18062, 10.5);
(18155, 17.5);
(18194, 9);
(18224, 10.5);
(18526, 8.8);
(18527, 12);
(18622, 13.2);
(18671, 20);
(18698, 10);
(18839, 13.5);
(18945, 12);
(18951, 9);
(19162, 15);
(19270, 27.5);
(19501, 12.5);
(19537, 10);
(19581, 10);
(19585, 14);
(19667, 10);
(19677, 10);
(19691, 10);
(19716, 20);
(19797, 10);
(19943, 9);
(20127, 27);
(20216, 22);
(20346, 10);
(20477, 20);
(20522, 14);
(20592, 11.9);
(20593, 10);
(20645, 12);
(20770, 9);
(20916, 9);
(20975, 9);
(21018, 10);
(21145, 18);
(21174, 10.5);
(21213, 8.75);
(21426, 10);
(21435, 15);
(22355, 22);
(22711, 18);
(22838, 10);
(22965, 17.5);
(23200, 12);
(23344, 18);
(23345, 10.5);
(24464, 15);
(27736, 9);
(27897, 10.5);
(21601, 12);
(21603, 30);
(22721, 10);
(23214, 10.5);
(23355, 8.75);
(23414, 10);
(23704, 25);
(23784, 12);
(23881, 10);
(23883, 10);
(23895, 10);
(23964, 9);
(23970, 77);
(24137, 10);
(24140, 10);
(24175, 12.5);
(24176, 15);
(24190, 10);
(24272, 16.5);
(24301, 9);
(24417, 15);
(24782, 9);
(24808, 35);
(24849, 9);
(24850, 9);
(24854, 9);
(24873, 12);
(24876, 15);
(24892, 9);
(24934, 35);
(24954, 12);
(25096, 12);
(25129, 12.5);
(25194, 14);
(25215, 9);
(25254, 10);
(25400, 15);
(25515, 15);
(25634, 10.5);
(25685, 10.5);
(26100, 10);
(26270, 30);
(26284, 10);
(26491, 8.75);
(26534, 22.5);
(26536, 20);
(26656, 12);
(26699, 15);
(26752, 20);
(26778, 9);
(26967, 9);
(27034, 20);
(27035, 10);
(27093, 50);
(27108, 9);
(27176, 40);
(27225, 10);
(27271, 8.75);
(27280, 14);
(27338, 20);
(27340, 10);
(27419, 9);
(27570, 20);
(27811, 10);
(27813, 10);
(27856, 10);
(27951, 12);
(27979, 18);
(27982, 9);
(27992, 10);
(28008, 10);
(28013, 12);
(28517, 10);
(28611, 10);
(28638, 22);
(28641, 9);
(28787, 15);
(28817, 20);
(28821, 25);
(28822, 25);
(28875, 15);
(28883, 9);
(28887, 22.5);
(28951, 30);
(29096, 8.5);
(29104, 20);
(29185, 12);
(29878, 9);
(29267, 9);
(29240, 9);
(29487, 33);
(29524, 9);
(29268, 10);
(30318, 20);
(30357, 8.1);
(30362, 18.75);
(30483, 9);
(30521, 12);
(30652, 19.5);
(30902, 15);
(31089, 9);
(31119, 20.25);
(32179, 12.25);
(31761, 9);
(31952, 18);

DisplayId | Entry | Name

(2837, 4829, 'Aku\'mai');
(11460, 6109, 'Azuregos');
(4872, 6140, 'Hetaera');
(7271, 7273, 'Gahz\'rilla');
(8570, 10184, 'Onyxia');
(9832, 10415, 'Ash\'ari Crystal');
(10193, 10430, 'The Beast');
(10244, 10942, 'Nessy');
(14173, 11496, 'Immol\'thar');
(11121, 11502, 'Ragnaros');
(11380, 11583, 'Nefarian');
(10193, 11982, 'Magmadar');
(13992, 13020, 'Vaelastrasz the Corrupt');
(14367, 14020, 'Chromaggus');
(14992, 14435, 'Prince Thunderaan');
(15295, 14834, 'Hakkar');
(15364, 14887, 'Ysondre');
(15365, 14888, 'Lethon');
(15366, 14889, 'Emeriss');
(15363, 14890, 'Taerar');
(15288, 15114, 'Gahz\'ranka');
(15288, 15122, 'Gahz\'ranka Dead');
(2719, 15192, 'Anachronos');
(15345, 15263, 'The Prophet Skeram');
(15686, 15299, 'Viscidus');
(800, 15305, 'Lord Skwol');
(15948, 15334, 'Giant Eye Tentacle');
(15432, 15339, 'Ossirian the Unscarred');
(15392, 15340, 'Moam');
(15509, 15517, 'Ouro');
(15556, 15589, 'Eye of C\'Thun');
(15363, 15689, 'Netherspite');
(16137, 15928, 'Thaddius');
(16064, 15932, 'Gluth');
(15928, 15952, 'Maexxna');
(15931, 15956, 'Anub\'Rekhan');
(16033, 15989, 'Sapphiron');
(15945, 15990, 'Kel\'Thuzad');
(19581, 17133, 'Aged Clefthoof');
(18062, 17225, 'Nightbane');
(18527, 17257, 'Magtheridon');
(17180, 17683, 'Zarakh');
(21435, 17711, 'Doomwalker');
(17228, 17770, 'Hungarfen');
(18526, 17842, 'Azgalor');
(18194, 17882, 'The Black Stalker');
(18224, 17942, 'Quagmirran');
(19585, 18259, 'Banthar');
(19797, 18398, 'Brokentoe');
(18155, 18411, 'Durn the Hungerer');
(19537, 18544, 'Veraku');
(17445, 18678, 'Fulgorge');
(20770, 18680, 'Marticar');
(18839, 18708, 'Murmur');
(18671, 18733, 'Fel Reaver');
(18622, 18945, 'Pit Commander');
(18698, 19044, 'Gruul the Dragonkiller');
(19162, 19219, 'Mechano-Lord Capacitus');
(16630, 19400, 'Fel Reaver Sentry');
(18945, 19514, 'Al\'ar');
(18951, 19516, 'Void Reaver');
(19270, 19934, 'Zaladormu');
(19667, 20216, 'Grulloc');
(18671, 20243, 'Scrapped Fel Reaver');
(19537, 20332, 'Nether Dragon');
(19677, 20555, 'Goc');
(19691, 20600, 'Maggoc');
(19716, 20682, 'Terokkarantula');
(9832, 20899, 'Void Conduit');
(19943, 20912, 'Harbinger Skyriss');
(20522, 21102, 'Uvuros');
(20127, 21174, 'Magtheridon');
(20216, 21217, 'The Lurker Below');
(19581, 21313, 'Dead Clefthoof');
(19501, 21404, 'Legion Hold Fel Reaver');
(19943, 21466, 'Harbinger Skyriss');
(19943, 21467, 'Harbinger Skyriss');
(20346, 21514, 'Gorgrom the Dragon-Eater');
(20593, 21657, 'Neltharaku');
(20477, 21801, 'Vhel\'kur');
(20592, 21897, 'Felspine the Greater');
(20645, 21961, 'Cataclysm Overseer');
(15786, 22137, 'Summoned Old God');
(18194, 22174, 'Trigul');
(18671, 22196, 'Wrath Reaver');
(20346, 22199, 'Slaag');
(18526, 22281, 'Galvanoth');
(20975, 22283, 'Eredar Stormbringer');
(19797, 22287, 'Amberpelt Clefthoof');
(18671, 22293, 'Inactive Fel Reaver');
(18671, 22295, 'Deathforge Automaton');
(20916, 22297, 'Throne-Guard Highlord');
(18526, 22302, 'Throne-Guard Champion');
(18671, 22389, 'Kil\'Jaeden Reaver (non-interactable)');
(21018, 22441, 'Teribus the Cursed');
(21174, 22887, 'High Warlord Naj\'entus');
(21145, 22898, 'Supremus');
(21213, 23029, 'Talonsworn Forest-Rager');
(15473, 15481, 'Spirit of Azuregos');
(15786, 15809, 'C\'Thun Transformation Visual');
(17445, 17075, 'Sandworm');
(16630, 18060, 'Fel Reaver Netherstorm');
(16630, 19260, 'Destroyed Fel Reaver');
(19943, 21601, 'Harbinger Skyriss (1)');
(19943, 21600, 'Harbinger Skyriss (1)');
(19943, 21599, 'Harbinger Skyriss (1)');
(19162, 21533, 'Mechano-Lord Capacitus (1)');
(18839, 20657, 'Murmur (1)');
(18671, 21187, 'Designer Island Fel Reaver [PH]');
(19537, 21407, 'Netherwing Dragon');
(18194, 20184, 'The Black Stalker (1)');
(18194, 22056, 'Coilfang Strider');
(17228, 20169, 'Hungarfen (1)');
(19501, 22509, 'Scrapped Fel Reaver Transform');
(19677, 22910, 'Skulloc Soulgrinder');
(20975, 23230, 'Shartuul');
(12869, 23261, 'Furywing');
(12869, 23281, 'Insidion');
(12869, 23282, 'Obsidia');
(12869, 11978, '[NOT USED] Neltharion');
(11121, 12804, '[PH] TEST Fire God');
(19581, 22284, '[PH] Wrath Clefthoof [not used]');
(14173, 22930, 'Yor');
(18224, 19894, 'Quagmirran (1)');
(21426, 23348, 'Captain Skyshatter');
(22355, 23899, 'Tethyr');
(22711, 25158, 'Brutallus');
(22965, 25160, 'Madrigosa');
(23345, 24850, 'Kalecgos');
(22711, 24882, 'Brutallus');
(22965, 24895, 'Madrigosa');
(22838, 25038, 'Felmyst');
(22838, 25041, 'Felmyst Visual');
(23200, 25315, 'Kil\'jaeden');
(23345, 25319, 'Kalecgos');
(24140, 25500, 'PattyMacks Flying Dummy');
(17205, 25508, 'Shadowsword Guardian');
(14173, 25599, 'Cataclysm Hound');
(17205, 25954, 'Shadowsword Guardian Sunwell');
(14173, 25957, 'Cataclysm Hound Sunwell');
(21601, 23517, 'Northrend Yeti (White)');
(21603, 23519, 'Big Shirl');
(24137, 23538, 'Northrend Red Dragon');
(16033, 24019, 'Glacion');
(24140, 24770, 'Nexus Watcher');
(26699, 24795, 'Surristrasz');
(19797, 24894, 'Bluff Behemoth');
(22721, 24899, '"Scoodles"');
(23355, 24914, 'Sorlof');
(25194, 25203, 'Glrggl');
(23883, 25228, 'Risen Crypt Lord');
(24873, 25430, 'Magmothregar');
(23214, 25465, 'Kel\'Thuzad');
(24849, 25789, 'Gammothra the Tormentor');
(24849, 25790, 'Weakened Gammothra');
(23414, 25833, 'The Grinder');
(27280, 25862, 'Khu\'nok the Behemoth');
(23704, 26231, 'Saragosa');
(15509, 26250, 'Scourged Burrower');
(27271, 26271, 'Emaciated Mammoth Bull');
(24140, 26276, 'Nexus Guardian');
(27811, 26277, 'Bronze Shrine Warden');
(24137, 26279, 'Dragonblight Red Dragon');
(23784, 26290, 'Jotun');
(27176, 26310, 'Malygos');
(24876, 26360, 'Rattlebore');
(22711, 26376, 'Test - Brutallus Craig');
(20216, 26452, 'Leviroth');
(23895, 26521, 'Kili\'ua');
(23881, 26608, 'Under-King Anub\'et\'kan');
(23964, 26633, 'Ursoc');
(23970, 26648, 'Oacha\'noa');
(26284, 26686, 'Ferocious Rhino');
(27419, 26687, 'Gortok Palehoof');
(24954, 26836, 'Gigantaur');
(24190, 26949, 'Torastrasza');
(24854, 27002, 'Grom\'thar the Thunderbringer');
(24850, 27004, 'Icefist');
(24850, 27005, 'Chilltusk');
(24854, 27006, 'Bonesunder');
(24850, 27007, 'Iceshatter');
(24854, 27008, 'Bloodfeast');
(24854, 27009, 'Drakegore');
(24272, 27075, 'Dun Argol Power Core');
(24301, 27105, 'Kreug Oathbreaker');
(24464, 27199, 'Warlord Jin\'arrak');
(24417, 27212, 'Image of Loken');
(23964, 27372, 'Ursoc Credit');
(24137, 27530, 'Ruby Keeper');
(24140, 27608, 'Azure Dragon');
(27034, 27656, 'Ley-Guardian Eregos');
(24808, 27789, 'Ysera');
(23964, 27796, 'Worg\'s Blood Elixir Credit');
(24934, 27925, 'Nozdormu');
(2837, 28003, 'Bittertide Hydra');
(25634, 28030, 'Quetz\'lun\'s Spirit');
(25096, 28068, 'Prophet of Sseratus');
(25129, 28089, 'Sseratus');
(25215, 28212, 'Bythius the Flesh-Shaper');
(25254, 28243, 'Thrym');
(28008, 28401, 'Har\'koa');
(25400, 28416, 'Rhunok');
(25515, 28561, 'Spirit of Rhunok');
(15295, 28672, 'Quetz\'lun');
(25685, 28785, 'Spirit of Quetz\'lun');
(26752, 28859, 'Malygos');
(27035, 28860, 'Sartharion');
(26270, 28952, 'Akali');
(27856, 29120, 'Anub\'arak');
(15931, 29249, 'Anub\'Rekhan (1)');
(15928, 29278, 'Maexxna (1)');
(26100, 29280, 'Image of Arthas');
(10193, 29312, 'Lavanthor');
(27340, 29317, 'Cyanigosa (Dragon)');
(24892, 29390, 'Snowdrift Jormungar');
(16064, 29417, 'Gluth (1)');
(16137, 29448, 'Thaddius (1)');
(28013, 29503, 'Fjorn');
(26656, 29647, 'Gymer');
(26536, 29747, 'The Ocular');
(26491, 29748, 'Phantom Mammoth');
(26534, 29789, 'The Ocular - Eye of C\'Thun Transform');
(26656, 29884, 'Gymer');
(25254, 29895, 'Thrym');
(16033, 29991, 'Sapphiron (1)');
(24892, 30014, 'Yggdras');
(24954, 30017, 'Stinkbeard');
(15945, 30061, 'Kel\'Thuzad (1)');
(21603, 30080, 'Willzyx');
(19797, 30088, 'Brokentoe (Mount)');
(26778, 30105, 'King Jokkum');
(30652, 30294, 'Frostworg Denmother');
(27093, 30300, 'Iron Colossus');
(26778, 30331, 'King Jokkum');
(26967, 30341, 'Eisenfaust');
(27225, 30453, 'Onyx Sanctum Guardian');
(23883, 30541, 'Forgotten Depths Underking');
(23883, 30544, 'Forgotten Depths Underking');
(26284, 30770, 'Ferocious Rhino (1)');
(27419, 30774, 'Gortok Palehoof (1)');
(26100, 30778, 'Image of Arthas (1)');
(23970, 30794, 'Oacha\'noa (1)');
(27338, 30830, 'Underking Talonox');
(27225, 31001, 'Onyx Sanctum Guardian (1)');
(23883, 31039, 'Forgotten Depths Underking');
(26967, 31125, 'Archavon the Stone Watcher');
(24301, 31255, 'Saronite Shaper');
(24301, 31271, 'Carnage');
(27035, 31311, 'Sartharion (1)');
(24301, 31322, 'Saronite Shaper');
(27570, 31334, 'Korialstrasz');
(24176, 31393, 'Crystal Wyrm');
(10193, 31509, 'Lavanthor (1)');
(27034, 31561, 'Ley-Guardian Eregos (1)');
(27856, 31610, 'Anub\'arak (1)');
(17345, 31688, 'Whirlwind');
(26967, 31722, 'Archavon the Stone Watcher (1)');
(26752, 31734, 'Malygos');
(17345, 31765, 'Tidal Wave');
(23883, 31780, 'Fallen Spiderlord');
(27736, 31815, 'Bone Giant');
(27813, 32186, 'Infinite Timebreaker');
(10193, 32237, 'Lava Hound');
(27897, 32299, 'Bone Sentinel');
(27951, 32400, 'Tukemuth');
(27897, 32479, 'Bone Guard');
(23883, 32480, 'Nerubian Underking');
(24301, 32482, 'Pustulent Colossus');
(27992, 32483, 'Engorged Blight Worm');
(27979, 32487, 'Putridus the Ancient');
(27982, 32492, 'Frostbrood Matriarch');
(26778, 32540, 'Lillehoff');
(10193, 32553, 'Lava Hound (1)');
(28641, 32871, 'Algalon the Observer');
(28638, 32930, 'Kologarn');
(28821, 32933, 'Left Arm');
(28822, 32934, 'Right Arm');
(28641, 33070, 'Algalon the Observer (1)');
(29096, 33090, 'Pool of Tar');
(28875, 33113, 'Flame Leviathan');
(29185, 33118, 'Ignis the Furnace Master');
(28883, 33139, 'Flame Leviathan Turret');
(28787, 33186, 'Razorscale');
(29185, 33190, 'Ignis the Furnace Master (1)');
(28517, 33237, 'Ulduar Colossus');
(28817, 33288, 'Yogg-Saron');
(28611, 33293, 'XT-002 Deconstructor');
(28887, 33329, 'Heart of the Deconstructor');
(27982, 33687, 'Chillmaw');
(2718, 33716, 'Ruby Consort');
(2719, 33718, 'Bronze Consort');
(12869, 33720, 'Obsidian Consort');
(28787, 33724, 'Razorscale (1)');
(28611, 33885, 'XT-002 Deconstructor (1)');
(28951, 33890, 'Brain of Yogg-Saron');
(28638, 33909, 'Kologarn (1)');
(28821, 33910, 'Left Arm (1)');
(28822, 33911, 'Right Arm (1)');
(28951, 33954, 'Brain of Yogg-Saron (1)');
(28817, 33955, 'Yogg-Saron (1)');
(27108, 33993, 'Emalon the Storm Watcher');
(27108, 33994, 'Emalon the Storm Watcher (1)');
(28887, 33995, 'Heart of the Deconstructor (1)');
(28875, 34003, 'Flame Leviathan (1)');
(28517, 34105, 'Ulduar Colossus (1)');
(28883, 34111, 'Flame Leviathan Turret (1)');
(26778, 34133, 'Champion of Hodir');
(26778, 34139, 'Champion of Hodir (1)');
(29104, 34164, 'Mechagnome Battletank');
(29104, 34165, 'Mechagnome Battletank (1)');
(28638, 34297, 'Kologarn');
(28638, 34298, 'Kologarn (1)');
(21601, 35470, 'Icehowl');
(24892, 35482, 'Hungry Jormungar');
(18698, 35039, 'Memory of Gruul');
(29267, 36066, 'Eydis Darkbane');
(29240, 36065, 'Fjola Lightbane');
(29487, 34925, 'North Sea Kraken');
(21601, 34797, 'Icehowl');
(29240, 34497, 'Fjola Lightbane');
(29267, 34496, 'Eydis Darkbane');
(29524, 35013, 'Koralon the Flame Watcher');
(29268, 34564, 'Anub\'arak');
(31119, 36612, 'Lord Marrowgar');
(27982, 36661, 'Rimefang');
(27982, 36794, 'Scourgelord Tyrannus');
(30902, 37230, 'Spire Frostwyrm');
(27982, 37528, 'Spire Frostwyrm (Ambient)');
(30362, 37755, 'Sindragosa');
(30483, 37025, 'Stinky');
(30483, 37217, 'Precious');
(14367, 35033, 'Memory of Chromaggus');
(30318, 36789, 'Valithria Dreamwalker');
(27982, 37533, 'Rimefang');
(27982, 37534, 'Spinestalker');
(30318, 37950, 'Valithria Dreamwalker');
(31089, 38433, 'Toravon the Ice Watcher');
(30521, 37126, 'Sister Svalna');
(8570, 36538, 'Onyxia (1)');
(18698, 35527, 'Memory of Gruul (1)');
(14367, 35521, 'Memory of Chromaggus (1)');
(27982, 38220, 'Rimefang (1)');
(30362, 38267, 'Sindragosa (3)');
(30902, 38444, 'Spire Frostwyrm (1)');
(30483, 38064, 'Stinky (1)');
(30483, 38103, 'Precious (1)');
(31119, 37959, 'Lord Marrowgar (3)');
(30318, 38174, 'Valithria Dreamwalker (1)');
(27982, 38219, 'Spinestalker (1)');
(30521, 38258, 'Sister Svalna (1)');
(28611, 34515, 'XT-005 Debugger');
(30362, 38266, 'Sindragosa (2)');
(31119, 37958, 'Lord Marrowgar (2)');
(30362, 38265, 'Sindragosa (1)');
(28517, 36168, 'Dan\'s Test Colossus');
(31119, 37957, 'Lord Marrowgar (1)');
(21601, 35447, 'Icehowl (1)');
(29240, 35350, 'Fjola Lightbane (1)');
(29267, 35347, 'Eydis Darkbane (1)');
(29268, 34566, 'Anub\'arak (1)');
(21601, 35448, 'Icehowl (2)');
(29240, 35351, 'Fjola Lightbane (2)');
(29267, 35348, 'Eydis Darkbane (2)');
(29268, 35615, 'Anub\'arak (2)');
(21601, 35449, 'Icehowl (3)');
(29240, 35352, 'Fjola Lightbane (3)');
(29267, 35349, 'Eydis Darkbane (3)');
(29268, 35616, 'Anub\'arak (3)');
(30362, 36853, 'Sindragosa');
(29524, 35360, 'Koralon the Flame Watcher (1)');
(31089, 38462, 'Toravon the Ice Watcher (1)');
(32179, 39746, 'General Zarithrian');
(31761, 39751, 'Baltharus the Warborn');
(31952, 39863, 'Halion');
(31761, 39899, 'Baltharus the Warborn');
(31952, 40142, 'Halion');
(2718, 40870, 'Ruby Dragon');
(32179, 39805, 'General Zarithrian (1)');
(31952, 39864, 'Halion (1)');
(31761, 39920, 'Baltharus the Warborn (1)');
(31761, 39922, 'Baltharus the Warborn (1)');
(31952, 39944, 'Halion (2)');
(31952, 39945, 'Halion (3)');
(31952, 40143, 'Halion (1)');
(31952, 40144, 'Halion (2)');
(31952, 40145, 'Halion (3)');

[ghost]

I tried to recreate this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WnaIKa6weY&feature=youtu.be&t=1m59s and got this: https://gfycat.com/similarunconsciouschrysomelid As you can see as per RangeDisplay, the distance from the farther Dummy is ~8yd (max). I couldn't Cleave while trying to face the same way as the Druid in the original video, but once I narrowed the angle spread between the two, it worked and chained to the farther Dummy (which I can't hit personally hit from where I am). In this particular case, angle is definitely off.

Gonna sift through your list and check for video footage on Cleave usage on/off those NPCs for Hitbox/Combat Reach regards.

[Riztazz]

And our current code checks if target is within 180 degrees of caster and math checks out - so blizzard had to add a little bit of leeway to this as well, so it's not so unforgiving

[ghost]

I've also found this: https://web.archive.org/web/20070402035846/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86009546&pageNo=1&sid=1

The following changes to cleave have been made for the 2.1.0 patch. --Cleaves will only hit people in front of the creature. --Cleaves will have a chain length equal to the combat reach of the creature.

[Riztazz]

So that pretty much confirms what i was saying, that output of base value + combat reach has to be limited to some value. Still gotta figure out base value for cleave

[ghost]

Check this: https://youtu.be/E166ukqzA80?t=88 Watch the whole Transition Phase. Look at the Cleaves, done by Felguards and the Warrior himself.

Here too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E166ukqzA80&feature=youtu.be&t=200

Here as well: https://youtu.be/E166ukqzA80?t=310

[Riztazz]

Ice tombs have combat reach of 7 yards. Another theory could be that minimum radius is either 8 or 10 yards (if theory is correct then it has to be 10) and if combat reach exceeds that value then combat reach value is used instead.

edit: Those vids do not confirm anything new unless i'm missing something :P

[ghost]

Ice tombs have combat reach of 7 yards.

Ah, welp, okay. So yeah, nothing new compared to previous data.

Another theory could be that minimum radius is either 8 or 10 yards (if theory is correct then it has to be 10) ...

How would it be 10yd if your theory is correct? Out of interest.

... and if combat reach exceeds that value then combat reach value is used instead.

The v2.1.0 change -- if taken literally -- would mean that Cleaves would equal the Target's Combat Reach. In a sense that would mean Cleave would be able to chain on/from Targets with gigantic Combat Reaches?

[Riztazz]

Because those dummies in orgrimmar are 9 yards(and change) apart from each other.

Answering your question: That could mean a lot of things actually, maybe blizzard used to use a static radius for cleaves, ie. search targets in 50 yards and cleave them. Cleave used to work differently back then. Or it meant what we're thinking - how far can cleave bounce off of target

[ghost]

Maybe this helps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ZkhrwwGdw&feature=youtu.be&t=398 Look at that ridiculous Seal of Command proc -- it hits the Target, chains to the left one and then further chains to the far-left one. SoComm strikes up to two Targets by default.

[Riztazz]

I'll check the ranges between dummies in a bit

[ghost]

I believe that one is able to hit behind you (so, all around you, in a 360 cone), and tries to find a Target to chain to. I think it's reminiscent of one of those way-old 360-degree "Cleave-chain" Spells (like some Vanilla Raid Trash/Boss Mobs would use).

So what that timestamp shows is that SoComm in particular does that -- it chains to the Dummy to the left and then another chain to the farther one. It's pretty friggin' far, and apparently, that's how it was for SoComm.

Yeah, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbFYsjfr2QU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVZDJcZWUWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRe2dpTVLZ8

[Riztazz]

What you're describing if far bouncing cleaves and i actually figured out what controls what. SOC is one of those far bouncing, so is ie. chain heal (is cleave as well, spell effect wise). Far bouncing cleave spells bounce off of targets. Non far bouncing, like warriors cleave or heart strike bounce off main target and within specified radius, which we do not know yet, but from what i'm seeing it's 10y + combat reach BUT can't exceed that value if combat reach alone is bigger than that by default

[ghost]

What you're describing if far bouncing cleaves and i actually figured out what controls what. SOC is one of those far bouncing, so is ie. chain heal (is cleave as well, spell effect wise). Far bouncing cleave spells bounce off of targets. ...

Good explanation. That's entirely correct.

... Non far bouncing, like warriors cleave or heart strike bounce off main target and within specified radius, which we do not know yet, but from what i'm seeing it's 10y + combat reach BUT can't exceed that value if combat reach alone is bigger than that by default

I'm still going off your list trying to find something that accurately shows this so that it can be used as proper data to determine this, but so far, nothing exceptional on my end (also had no Internet for like two hours).

[Riztazz]

Give it a spin after realm update, it's still lacking some data(gotta research further), but should behave way better now

[styxel]

Feral swipe already feels better at least on dummies actually hitting targets To your sides better now testing on raids on thursday..