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The Text Encoding Initiative Guidelines
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Allow @place in postscript #2542

Open cthomasdta opened 3 months ago

cthomasdta commented 3 months ago

This was originally discussed with the TEI SIG Correspondence, cf. my initial mail https://listserv.brown.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=TEI-CORRESP-SIG;d1a80614.2401. You can read a little more context there, but to keep things very short for the purpose of this issue I will simply quote these few lines:

following the proposals in the Encoding Correspondence Manual on postscripts, Ch. "Postscripts of Letters", https://encoding-correspondence.bbaw.de/v1/postscripts.html, we would raise an issue with the TEI to allow @place in <postscript>.

This is also proposed as one possibility in the chapter:

Furthermore, the <postscript> element should be supplied with an attribute @place to indicate the place where the postscript is entered on the page.

So, the <postscript> element should become a member of class att.placement.

JanelleJenstad commented 3 months ago

This request has my full support. We need @place available to fully describe the mise-en-page of many features of the text. I hope Council will consider other candidates for att.placement while they are considering adding <postscript> to att.placement.

cthomasdta commented 3 months ago

hope Council will consider other candidates for att.placement

yes, I would argue for <div> as well and could provide an example for a distinct <div type="writingSession"> (not a postscript!) written upside-down at the top of the page. But maybe for now or at least for this issue we stay with the motion for adding <postscript> to att.placement.

lb42 commented 3 months ago

Making div into a free floating block of text does some violence to its existing semantics, such as they are, in my view. Why not use seg ?

cthomasdta commented 3 months ago

[…] Why not use seg ?

In my view, a question of priorities, what we want to express: <seg> is very generic, whereas the most important info imo is that this is a <div>, more specifically a <div type="writingSession" n="3">, exactly like the two other <div type="writingSession"> that the letter consists of.

So we have a clear succession of the same elements for the respective text containers (and not div-div-seg -- as if the last one was something else than the two blocks before that):

<div type="letter">
   <div type="writingSession" n="1"><p>[…]</p></div>
   <div type="writingSession" n="2"><p>[…]</p></div>
   <div type="writingSession" n="3"><p>[…]</p></div>
</div>

The (again, imo) a little less important info, but still worth noting preferably as an attribute of this div, is that the third writing session was squeezed in on the top of the page (and written upside-down). Since there is something exactly fitting this annotation demand, namely @place (and maybe @rend), I would like to be able to use it there. [Btw I would argue the same for <head>, but that again would be another issue :)]

I am happy to discuss @place in div in a separate issue. @lb42 should we reference your question/objection in a new one?

For now I would focus on @place in postscript here.

lb42 commented 3 months ago

Thanks for clarifying your reasoning! It makes sense iff you use div only for "writing sessions" or groups of them, less if you also use them for other hierarchically ordered structural components. Btw, isnt the @change attribute suitable for your purposes?

cthomasdta commented 3 months ago

Btw, isnt the @change attribute suitable for your purposes?

Hm, at least I don't see it, not as a substitute for @place here, but that's probably not what you had in mind. Anyway, we already use @change for a different distinct purpose, as an easy way to differentiate the writing process in combination with @hand and linking the @change-values to teiHeader/profileDesc/creation/listChange/change.

sydb commented 2 months ago

Ignoring the entire “maybe <div>, maybe <seg>” side show, I think it quite reasonable to add <postscript> to att.placement.

sabineseifert commented 1 month ago

European subgroup at VF2F April 27: