Open abdullah5490 opened 4 years ago
Certainly hoping the accessibility bugs should be addressed soon, have reported plenty of times, but indeed got no response note the android application does not have these issues particularly, it's only iOS
in addition to the point number 2 above, if we manage to go in the "group info" somehow, we cannot navigate the different sections there like photos, media, files etc. because these items could not be focussed with voiceover accessibility curser in navigation. Even more, if we click on any of these by an idea (such as files), the screen would display the files list of the current group, but we cannot read or navigate to them using voiceover.
Well, these issues should have to address by telegram. indeed this is the only one who's providing us every possible service without celling our data to companies. And we want to use it, we want to switch our communities on telegram. so kindly consider fixing these issues reported by @abdullah5490
Can I work on these enhancements?
@giogus from whom you are asking? Of course, if you can! Someone should work on this!
please pay attention to this issue!
Do you all mind to sharing the improvements we should focus to improve by the priority?
Example:
I want to help with these improvements, and I think the best way to work on that is by making these improvements incremental.
Thank you! 😉
@giogus (High) make the group info, or contact info screen accessible, which appears upon clicking on the title of the opened conversation window. The information like group name, group link, contact username, group members list, available media, available files, are not accessible properly for voiceover user and we can't perform any further action on them. (High) make adjustments to the messages view, so the screen reader "voiceover" should:
I've exactly the same issues, I use WhatsApp instead of Telegram because I can't use Telegram confidently with VoiceOver. I also hope to be able to use Telegram for chat.
@giogus I suppose labeling the first button will be complicated because you'll need to find the function for that but after that I hope it will be just calling the right function.
Many thanks for your proposal to help on this.
Hey there, I'd like to start working on these issues. I think nobody is currently working on it, right? I will go through the list by @abdullah5490
Best regards, Michael
i’ll be very thanksful if you do something for these issues.,
On August 28, 2020 11:06:41 PM misteu notifications@github.com wrote:
Hey there, I'd like to start working on these issues. I think nobody is currently working on it, right? I will go through the list by @abdullah5490
Best regards, Michael
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Hey. how are you? How is it going? turns out? is work being done now and when to expect improvements? this is important for us, for the blind! E.G.: quote from r/Telegram
Hello there! I am a teacher who uses telegram to interact with students in groups. One of my students is blind and uses iOS. He is complaining that Telegram lacks accessibility for the blind. He says that he receives notifications but can’t access the messages nor respond. He also argues that this process is seamless in WhatsApp. Is there anything we can do to improve his experience? I really do not want to use WhatsApp.>
Hi there, sorry for not getting back to you until now. I did not find the time yet to tackle this task because of some personal reasons. I hope to find some time to start working on it this weekend :)
Let we keep expecting some betterment on it's way very soon, as its very critical and important for telegram usage on iOS.
Hi, today I wanted to start. Unfortunately it is quite hard to get started because how to build the app is documented pretty bad.
The Readme file is pretty light and misleading regarding this. As a consequence, I was not able to build the app yet. So I cannot guarantee anything at this moment.
See also this issue: https://github.com/TelegramMessenger/Telegram-iOS/issues/377
Any update on IOS accessibility progress?
No, at least i do not see any progress.
With the jump from WhatsApp to Telegram by many people, it is absolutely critical that blind people have equal access to this app. I've spent quite a long time documenting various bugs with volunteer support and posting about this in various places, and while things do occasionally get fixed, there are many that haven't. I can confirm the ones mentioned in the original issue, and will add a few:
One of the unfortunate consequences of items 2 and 3 is that it is extremely difficult to scroll through a large group. Normally, we could repeatedly swipe up with three fingers to eventually reach the end, or we could use the scrollbar on the right to quickly jump to the bottom. If there is a scrollbar or a button to jump to the bottom, VoiceOver doesn't pick up on either of those.
The single thing keeping so many of us on WhatsApp is its almost flawless accessibility. And the fact WhatsApp does this one thing better than Telegram is honestly sad. I'd love to see this get some attention. I know it can't happen tomorrow, or next week, but hundreds of us have been waiting years and seen very little change.
I've also contacted telegram support about this. I can think of one other issue.
go to the group or chat, and tap info, then media and links. At the time when I did report this, none of the links and images and media files uploaded to the group were actually labeled. I reported this back in 2016 and again in 2017 and again in 2019 with no response from the support team. Signal and what's app both do a better job. come on telegram, catch up and do bettter, please?
Indeed, we are shifting from Whats app to telegram, but it seems that telegram do not want us. I've already tried with different channels, even from an official channel as well. but they are not ready to listen.
I hope Telegram will listen to us, and give us the chance to explore this amazing platform.
Cheers,
--
Abdullah Zubair Chief Executive Officer Logo https://blindhelp.net Blind Help Project Hyderabad Pakistan t: +92 (0) 335 0021249 <tel:+923350021249> e: AbdullahZubair@BlindHelp.net BlindHelp.net https://blindhelp.net Facebook https://facebook.com/abdullah.zubair.official LinkedIn https://linkedin.com/in/azofficial Twitter https://twitter.com/a_z_official WhatsApp https://api.whatsapp.com/send?phone=923032305698 Telegram https://t.me/a_z_official Instagram https://instagram.com/abdullah_zubair_official Banner https://blindhelp.net The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient specified in the message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender. If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and follow with its deletion, so that it can be ensured that such a mistake does not occur in the future.
It seems that accessibility doesn't even have a backseat position for Telegram. So many access-oriented reports on various communication channels, and such a disappointing progress. It's not encouraging to say the least.
I completely agree with all of this! I was in a few groups on telegram, but they have all dispanded now due to the inaccessibility of the IOS client. I am on the beta of it on testflight and have left lots of feedback, but it just gets ignored. If you have an iphone that supports screen recognition, you can turn that on and it makes the settings screen somewhat accessible, but it still isn't fantastic. Really hope we can see some improvements soon!
I've noticed these accessibility issues as well and have sent the support team numerous emails asking them to be fixed. I have yet to receive any form of response. This is not what I would call encouraging in the slightest. @misteu and the rest of the telegram team, do better, please. You've a user base here who would love to use your app with as much confidence as their sighted colleagues, and yet they cannot do so. I am disappointed. I understand that sometimes, life gets in the way and simply cannot be ignored. But these issues have been around for a rather long period of time.
Thank you so much to everyone who volunteered to work on these issues! As a VoiceOver and Telegram user myself, I face these problems daily and really hope they can get addressed soon. Thank you as well, @abdullah5490, for the detailed report!
Hello, I, too, like many of the blind people here, thank the people who volunteer. I hope for those issues to be resolved. The settings section seems to be a little accessible, I could do everything except setting a profile picture by fittling around a bit. Of course there is way to go. About chatting, I can manage with chatting like one person, but if I were to join a group, there is no way I can keep up by manually scrolling with three fingers. I agree with the issues that @abdullah5490 has reported. Thanks once again.
I should also like to note a few quality of life points...
Blind person here, I confirm all of the above. At this point, the only way to use Telegram for us is through an unofficial Windows app called Unigram, or by getting an Android device. More and more groups are switching to Telegram these days, making blind people unable to participate. This sometimes puts us in very disadvantaged positions (imagine not being able to read/follow any conversations of your fellow college students, particularly during remote learning). Please fix this as soon as possible, as we're suffering from this issue.
I've noticed these accessibility issues as well and have sent the support team numerous emails asking them to be fixed. I have yet to receive any form of response. This is not what I would call encouraging in the slightest. @misteu and the rest of the telegram team, do better, please. You've a user base here who would love to use your app with as much confidence as their sighted colleagues, and yet they cannot do so. I am disappointed. I understand that sometimes, life gets in the way and simply cannot be ignored. But these issues have been around for a rather long period of time.
@musicman5464 just to make sure: I am NOT part of the Telegram team. I just stumbled across these issues and I want to help as an open source contributor. Unfortunately, I was unable to build the project in XCode until now because it has a quite complicated build system I have never worked with before.
I am trying to build again right now, it looks more promising than the last time I tried to do that.
If I finally can build the project I will try to work on the bugs all of you described.
@misteu the build instructions have been updated.
I've created this issue on March31 last year, and after 10months, we are seeing nothing practically in telegram app. I'm wondering that third-parties are developing telegram clients on the ground title of "accessibility", and they are selling telegram's free services through their own clients just because of better accessibility in their software. If third party developers can do accessibility implementations, then why not the official telegram developers are doing the same? One of the major example of such client is "bright guide" which is based on telegram service, is more accessible for voiceover users as well, but we cannot send voice messages without getting paid subscription for the application. Now, voice messages are free in telegram, why we need to pay for such a basic feature just because of we need accessibility, and the official developers are not serious in improving things for us? This is too much disappointing approach indeed in the era of informational age of 21st century where everyone must have equal rights to access contents all over the technological medium. I, once again, repeat my request to @giogus @misteu and generally to all primetime developers that please, give some promising efforts to make things easier for our community. If we have to pay for those third-party clients to get accessibility support, we'll pay that amount to you for improving accessibility in official version of telegram (if you need it). I've also mentioned the comments of @Simon818 and @nick6489 in my issue for adding their explained problems to the existing report. At the end, I would like to request everyone like @sv5786 @AbdullahZubair @kranid @mikolysz @burakyuksek @guilevi @musicman5464 @jadesharp1992 @amirsol81 @marrie @Deon588 and all other telegram users to please spread this issue# everywhere in your circle to bring more and more people's attention over here for powering our voice and include this issue in your own efforts to convey this message to telegram team to make them listening. And if anything is still missing from the report, you can comment here or contact me directly and i'll definitely include those points with your reference in this issue.
Thanks and best regards.
Hi there, good news! With the help of @ali-fareed I was finally able to build the app in simulator AND on my device (thanks again!). Therefore, I can finally work on the accessibility issues.
My comments on Telegram for iOS thus far are as follows:
Sometimes the button-order might be ‘No Yes’ In other cases they could be ‘OK Cancel’.
This means that knowing which one is the affirmative option in all cases is inconsistent and not possible.
This would mean that if a user for example chooses the ‘Open Message Menu’ from the VoiceOver actions rotor, the only things pertaining to the currently selected action would be in-focus, and it would be impossible to play, a voice message that is currently not relevant to the focused dialog, etc.
There is no hint to the user that an on-screen action has occurred and is awaiting their input, so it is more likely than not, that a user may simply tap and tap a link and assume that it isn’t working, when it’s simply waiting for user input.
Bring the VoiceOver focus to this option and label the buttons for a much higher level of user experience and understanding.
@misteu thank you so so much for looking into the issues. I know the list is really long by now, so please help us be helpful by guiding us in what works best for you as a developer! In the iOS simulator feel free to turn on "Accessibility Inspector" under Settings. This way you will be able to spot simple accessibility problems, like missing labels, etc, as you mouse around the interface in Xcode. Apple's iOS Accessibility guide is probably one of the best places to start to learn about creating accessible interfaces on iOS. You will find a lot of easy-to-follow articles on the Internet that discuss the importance of accessibility labels, roles (traits), handling modal views, popovers, etc.
I have an issue that no one else seems to have brought up, i.e. the lack of accessibility in channels. Should I file this as a separate issue? Thanks again!
I'm glad you are looking into the issues finally, this is the first approach towards the inclusion
With kind regards, Sagar.Sent from my iPhone
On 18 Jan 2021, at 04:29, misteu notifications@github.com wrote:
Hi there, good news! With the help of @ali-fareed I was finally able to build the app in simulator AND on my device (thanks again!). Therefore, I can finally work on the accessibility issues.
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Hi at all, @vick08 right, the list is pretty long but it's totally fine to point out all of these issues. I worked on quite a number of accessibility tickets in my current job. Therefore, I should have a good foundation regarding Accessibility on iOS devices. However, I am still learning a lot. So, I am really looking forward to your feedback when first fixes are available. Your feedback is crucial!
Where you can help me, is to point out the most critical issues. E.g. VoiceOver traps, parts of the app that are (almost) totally unusable because of wrong/missing labels, etc. You already mentioned a lot of stuff, I might also just go trough everything and look what is a quick fix etc.
From a gut feeling, I would just start for myself with a small VoiceOver audit in the screens you pointed out.
@vick08 Regarding creating new issues, I would go for keeping everything accessibility related (at least for the first iteration) in this thread (Just to have a first collection of everything). However, when there will be working more people working on acccessibility issues, it might be useful to have separate issues.
I am really looking forward to reading your feedback when first fixes are available at some point!
@misteu I really appreciate that you took an innitiative of improvement. I'm closely monitoring this thread, and will be instantly available to provide any kind of backdoor support by trying out test flights or anything. Good luck!
@vick08 you can add a comment containing your findings, and i'll reference that one to my report above.
Agreed. I am very familiar with testflight so if you and the the other devs fixing these issues need help testing I'd be more than happy to do so.
Hi all,
First of all thanks a lot @misteu for your kindness, help and support.
We are here to provide any help you need, regarding any technical information, any testings etc.
Keep up the good work.
Blessings be on your way!
--
Abdullah Zubair Chief Executive Officer Logo https://blindhelp.net Blind Help Project Hyderabad Pakistan t: +92 (0) 335 0021249 <tel:+923350021249> e: AbdullahZubair@BlindHelp.net BlindHelp.net https://blindhelp.net Facebook https://facebook.com/abdullah.zubair.official LinkedIn https://linkedin.com/in/azofficial Twitter https://twitter.com/a_z_official WhatsApp https://api.whatsapp.com/send?phone=923032305698 Telegram https://t.me/a_z_official Instagram https://instagram.com/abdullah_zubair_official Banner https://blindhelp.net The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient specified in the message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender. If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and follow with its deletion, so that it can be ensured that such a mistake does not occur in the future.
Hi @misteu:
I just wanted to echo the thanks for putting in the time to fix these. I went through my original chats with volunteer support and wanted to add a few bugs I found from there in addition to my previous comment:
I think there are a couple of duplicates here but I'm not certain. I tried to dig for issues that hadn't been mentioned yet and add info to ones that had.
Thanks again for working on this, and to everyone who commented. It is hard to get a community of people together sometimes, and I've been impressed by the turnout on this thread. We all benefit from speaking up about our experiences with this app, so please keep comments coming if you find something that hasn't already been mentioned. I feel like we lose some cohesion if we move to filing different issues for every single accessibility bug, but if any developers have a better suggestion for how to organize this, I'm willing to follow that.
First of all, I would like to thank everyone for trying to improve the accessibility of Telegram. I have one bug to add to this list: When you tap share from Youtube or from another app and choose telegram, the share menu of telegram is completely inaccessible to voiceover, except the add comment field. All of the cancel, send or the people to share are inaccessible to voiceover. Thanks again for the help and support
@misteu what makes it a little bit tricky for me to advise you here is that I don't know if my assumptions are correct regarding the UI. I'd say some good starters are:
Hello all. @misteu first of all, thank you so you are ready to help with fixing accessibility related bugs in telegram.
really, it is not so easy to navigate tg screens with VO, scrolling is allmost unusable, lots controls are not labeled.
the problem is that i tried to contact telegram client developers not only for ios, but they express silence in terms of accessibility related issues, and it is not so good. They should take an example from signal :).
so, anyway, i am ready to help testing your work, and i think most of people are ready, so we all would be able to put our efforts to fix these issues.
I had a first quick audit trying to use the app with VoiceOver and totally agree with a lot of issues mentioned. Especially scrolling seems very unreliable which is an essential part of the app.
However, please be aware that I still need dive through the project to understand where and how I can apply fixes. Telegram's architecture is quite different to other projects I worked on before. I mainly have time for that on the weekends due to my full-time coding job.
As far as I understood so far (I read a code-walkthrough in some blog yesterday), Telegram did "reinvent" basically all of the system controls. From my experience this often leads to worse usability experience compared to using/modifying system controls (provided by Apple).
@ali-fareed @peter-iakovlev or anybody else actively working on the app: Could you connect me with anybody that had worked on accessibility topics in the app? It is really hard to understand why certain things are done the way they are throughout the app. Unfortunately, there is nothing commented anywhere. There is a lot of code commented out but it's nowhere documented why as far as I see it.
One example: In NavigationBar
there is a method named updateAccessibilityElements
that seems to update the accessibilityElements
property. This updateAccessibilityElements
method is called in NavigationBar
's didLoad
.
However, the whole content of updateAccessibilityElements
is commented out. Why was this done?
I could just start adding accessibility labels, values and traits where they seem to miss directly in the components but it looks that this was removed on purpose or that there is some kind of handling for UIAccessibilityElement
s.
Thank you for your help.
@misteu If it is managed in git, you could probably use git blame for this purpose: https://git-scm.com/docs/git-blame
@misteu you can also use the blame button on github's website (when opening a file, just before a table).
A few non-testflight people texted me yesterday to let me know there was an app store only update to Telegram. This seems to fix a number of VoiceOver issues in the app, though many still remain. One of the big fixes I notice right away is significant work in the info screens for groups and contacts, which I referred to previously as one of the worst sections of the app. I also notice immediately that unread badges have been fixed, which is small but very appreciated. If you don't yet have this build, manually install it from the app store. It may not have gotten to everyone's automatic updates yet, and many of us are also on testflight builds, which have not been updated with this new functionality yet.
Yes, this update is great! One of the first things I noticed is that the settings screen works really well now with voiceover. When you delete a chat though, the delete and cancel buttons are still not labelled with voiceover. If you have a phone that supports screen recognition and you turn that on, then they are labelled, but anyone with an older device would be stuck, so it would be great to see those button labels come in in a future update.
Sent from my iPhone
On 29 Jan 2021, at 07:16, Simon Jaeger notifications@github.com wrote:
A few non-testflight people texted me yesterday to let me know there was an app store only update to Telegram. This seems to fix a number of VoiceOver issues in the app, though many still remain. One of the big fixes I notice right away is significant work in the info screens for groups and contacts, which I referred to previously as one of the worst sections of the app. I also notice immediately that unread badges have been fixed, which is small but very appreciated. If you don't yet have this build, manually install it from the app store. It may not have gotten to everyone's automatic updates yet, and many of us are also on testflight builds, which have not been updated with this new functionality yet.
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Checklist
Description
In the issue #14 the voiceover accessibility was provided and that issue was closed, but unfortunately, the accessibility is still requiring too many adjustments in the iOS client.
Expected Behavior
I've mentioned this along with the problems in above stated 4 points.
Steps to Reproduce
Environment
Device:
iPhone/iPad X
iOS version:
13.X
App version:
7.X