VR experience - Improvements to system, need VR demo and tutorials

[Tum1370]

After watching the latest Stream, and Lee saying that VR is working fine, I cannot believe he said this. I only really got Max for creating VR games, and i am very disappointed with this. The only reason it took this long to post bugs is i thought VR was still no where near finished !

We need to be able to Setup the controller settings ourselves. We need to be able to 2 hand the weapon and look down the sights / scope, Currently its very bad and unplayable for a VR game. We cant aim a gun properly without 2 hands. Since when do you EVER use one handed assault rifles in VR ???? ( Try playing ANY VR shooter, like PAVLOV, CONTRACTORS, GHOSTS OF TABOR ) You certainly should not be thinking just because Half Life Alyx is one handed, that is how VR shooters are meant to be. Almost every VR shooter is 2 handed. Either way, that should be the choice of the dev, and not restricted to a poor one handed experience.

We need to be able to jump. We dont need a green laser point coming from the gun. The AI moves at a fraction of a second and totally pointless. Standalones dont work in VR. No way to set your player to the correct level inside VR, and having to use PAGE UP / PAGE DOWN. Cant access inventory in VR. Cant access hotkeys or even see hotkeys in VR. Snap turn ONLY ???? (Many players do not like Snap turn and will use Smooth turn - This should be optional for the player) Cant reload any gun. No hands are even visible, when no gun. No body. We still see the Press E to for everything.

WHICH system is this set up for, Because on BOTH the INDEX and (QUEST using AIRLINK), the controllers dont work. All i can do is Snap Turn using left stick, and B on right controller brings up a menu with MAP / INVENTORY / SKILLS, but this screen appears behind me.(When this screen does appear behind me, Map and Skills both bring up Map Screen, Inventory brings up a totally empty inventory) When talking to vendors, once again, the trader screen appears behind you. (The vendor does work though and i can buy stuff) No way off accessing the Quest Log.

Come on the list goes on and on. VR is very bad currently, and a waste of time. VR is a major part of Max and it is just terrible.

I use a Steam Index, as well as a Quest 2, Both experiences are terrible.

PLEASE post a good workable DEMO game that works good in VR, and not just an INDOORS experience.

The VR guide says that there will be a new option in Storyboard to setup everything to do with VR, HUDS, Controllers, Preview in VR ? Where is this ?

And what is the current controller mapping ? All i see working is LEFT STICK, snap turn, and movement (head only direction - Once again, needs options for player for controller direction) RIGHT STICK doesnt do anything for me. LEFT A and B buttons, and GRIP button do Nothing. RIGHT A button and GRIP button does nothing. Both Right and Left STICK Press does nothing. Left trigger does nothing.

Index touch pads do nothing.

[qcrocknet2020]

@Tum1370 in the April update video, they said VR support is completed : https://youtu.be/rBK6EtPPyD0?t=43 They might need to clarify what they mean by "VR support is completed". I will try later to connect my Quest 2 and give my own feedback.

[Tum1370]

@qcrocknet2020 Ye i see that, and you will be very disappointed with the VR currently when you test it. I had another good test earlier, Yes the levels do look good in VR, but gameplay, controllers, interaction, everything, is terrible.

[LeeBamberTGC]

@Tum1370 Thanks for the feedback, pretty comprehensive and I can do something about most of those. Some we will push as borderline feature request but generally we can do better.

I suppose we could advertise it as Terrific VR Support (i.e. engenders terror) ;)

[Tum1370]

@LeeBamberTGC Hehe, happy to give you feedback, Ye i have very high hopes for VR with Max, and will feedback everything that i dont feel right so you can make it the best VR easy game maker :)

That was not a full list, but really an essential list from its current state. Also, i do think the actually PLAYER should have a VR setting in the standalone, because most VR players have different views to how they like there VR setup.

VR settings for players should at least have the following options, which should be fairly easy to support. Snap / Smooth turn ( Snap angle / Speed, Smooth Speed turning etc) Set your height in settings. Then really you need to cater for LEFT / RIGHT handers, Do they want Turning on LEFT or RIGHT controller etc ? Then usually you have Head Direction or The Direction the controller is pointing etc.

The list can go on and on, but these are the very basics most VR players would need.

[Tum1370]

@LeeBamberTGC Also a quick video regarding gun handling in VR, and how Half LIfe Aylx got away with only 1 handed weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aNxXKBsl7k

[LeeBamberTGC]

@Tum1370 As there is a mix of bug reports and feature improvements in here, I have split them out so I can focus on criticals first, then we can transition this issue to an enhancement state. I think for the improvements, more design work is needed to ensure what we create offers the features expected in a modern VR game. If HL-Alex is not a good example for you, we will need to include ideas from other VR games in this design. For now I have split the criticals out:

BUGS Standalones dont work in VR. The AI moves at a fraction of a second and totally pointless. Cant access inventory in VR. Cant access hotkeys or even see hotkeys in VR. Cant reload any gun. We still see the Press E to for everything. No way off accessing the Quest Log. And what is the current controller mapping ? RIGHT STICK doesnt do anything for me. LEFT A and B buttons, and GRIP button do Nothing. RIGHT A button and GRIP button does nothing. Both Right and Left STICK Press does nothing. Left trigger does nothing. Climbing a Ladder in vr - ladder can be set to be climbable with the 'e' being pressed but in vr this doesnt seem to respond. or using the forward thumbstick in place of 'w' to climb.

IMPROVEMENTS We need to be able to jump. No way to set your player to the correct level inside VR, and having to use PAGE UP / PAGE DOWN. We dont need a green laser point coming from the gun. Snap turn ONLY ???? (Many players do not like Snap turn and will use Smooth turn - This should be optional for the player) No hands are even visible, when no gun. No body. All i see working is LEFT STICK, snap turn, and movement (head only direction - Once again, needs options for player for controller direction) WHICH system is this set up for, Because on BOTH the INDEX and (QUEST using AIRLINK), the controllers dont work. All i can do is Snap Turn using left stick, and B on right controller brings up a menu with MAP / INVENTORY / SKILLS, but this screen appears behind me.(When this screen does appear behind me, Map and Skills both bring up Map Screen, Inventory brings up a totally empty inventory) When talking to vendors, once again, the trader screen appears behind you. (The vendor does work though and i can buy stuff) Come on the list goes on and on. VR is very bad currently, and a waste of time. VR is a major part of Max and it is just terrible. I use a Steam Index, as well as a Quest 2, Both experiences are terrible. PLEASE post a good workable DEMO game that works good in VR, and not just an INDOORS experience. Index touch pads do nothing. Climbing a Ladder in vr - ladder can be set to be climbable with the 'e' being pressed but in vr this doesnt seem to respond. or using the forward thumbstick in place of 'w' to climb.

I will post here if I have any questions as I work through the BUGS list, chief among them is that fact you cannot even make a VR standalone which essentially defeats the point of having it.

[LeeBamberTGC]

BUGS FIXED: Standalones dont work in VR = FIXED We still see the Press E to for everything = FIXED The AI moves at a fraction of a second and totally pointless = VR NEEDS OPTIMIZING "A LOT" No way of accessing the Quest Log = USER CAN ADD A BUTTON TO THE VR SCREEN -> QUEST LOG SCREEN

IMPROVEMENTS, TUTORIALS, and a DEMO are all needed to get VR to where I ideally want it, but it is clear there is a lot of work to get there, not merely fixes. I am considering the suggestion of actually making a good VR demo to resolve this one. This would mean all the issues are addressed, and we get a great demo and tutorial for MAX too.

[Tum1370]

@LeeBamberTGC Just tested VR. Not tested Standalones YET. I can see Press Trigger now in VR, so that's better., but not great, should have options to remove, as spoils the VR effect. not tested the SLOW VR AI. STILL NO WAY OF accessing Quests, I see no way to add a button anywhere, on storyboard or anywhere.

Pressing the B button on RIGHT Controller brings up the INVENTORY / MAP / SKILLS screen. When pressing PLAYER SKILLS, It takes you to MAP SCREEN, and so does PRESSING MAP.

Still have NO WAY to USE HOTKEYS IN GAME.

These are only what my VERY QUICK test found now.

[Tum1370]

@LeeBamberTGC Another problem, I just tried VR on a different project, That worked before, AND the RIGHT B button doesnt even work here. Not good at all...

[Tum1370]

Something MUST be missing here, The only level that the RIGHT B button brings up the inventory screen only works on the RPG template. Also not one level works well.

[Tum1370]

ANOTHER BUG. On another level i press RIGHT B, all i get is MAP screen up. So frustrating :( when this is not even marked now as a bug.

[Tum1370]

What is the MAPPING for the VR buttons ? I mean, There are many 2 buttons at least per controller, There is grips per controller. There are 2 thumbsticks, That can actually be pressed as well. The is UP DOWN LEFT RIGHT per thumbstick, so even more options for usability.

Seems to me that VR is not getting any love and attention it should be.

I will have to remake my whole issue / bug list as this is very very poor. And certainly does not want the BUG removing from it.

[LeeBamberTGC]

INSTRUCTIONS NEEDED FOR: Cant access inventory in VR = Press right controller B button to get VR menu Cant access hotkeys or even see hotkeys in VR = Press right controller B button to get VR menu Cant reload any gun = Ppush down on analogue stick on right controller RIGHT STICK doesnt do anything for me = Up to switch ALT MODES, Down to Reload, Left/Right = Change Weapon LEFT A and B buttons, and GRIP button do Nothing = Left/Right Controller Grip Button switches to RUN MODE RIGHT A button and GRIP button does nothing = See above Both Right and Left STICK Press does nothing = Left Controller stick does nothing agreed. Left trigger does nothing = Left Controller trigger does nothing agreed.

[Tum1370]

NSTRUCTIONS NEEDED FOR:

Cant access inventory in VR = Press right controller B button to get VR menu (ONLY works on RPG Template)

Cant access hotkeys or even see hotkeys in VR = Press right controller B button to get VR menu (ONLY works on RPG Template)

Cant reload any gun = Push down on analogue stick on right controller (YES this works, i found that after posting that bug)

RIGHT STICK doesnt do anything for me = Up to switch ALT MODES, Down to Reload, Left/Right = Change Weapon (Will TEST this )

LEFT A and B buttons, and GRIP button do Nothing = Left/Right Controller Grip Button switches to RUN MODE (YES this works, i found that after posting that bug)

RIGHT A button and GRIP button does nothing = (Yes GRIP runs, But RIGHT A DOES NOTHING STILL)

Both Right and Left STICK Press does nothing = Left Controller stick does nothing agreed.

Left trigger does nothing = Left Controller trigger does nothing agreed.

[Tum1370]

I created a BRAND NEW EMPTY project I added the RPG screens I created a NEW EMPTY level. I Went in VR.

Right B button Does nothing, No inventory / Map / Skills screen appears. (Only ever appears on RPG Template) In QUEST HUD, No way to Access in VR.,

On existing levels, with RPG screens, that have my own HUDS. RIGHT B, displayed the MAP, that was it.

Have not tested others because MOST stuff only works on RPG Template level.

Extremely BUGGY at mo. Definitely does not want that BUG tag removed.

[Tum1370]

@LeeBamberTGC Am posting this here so you see it, and also Creating a NEW BUG REPORT. This is a bug and this post is not marked as BUG. I am sure the Controller Mapping is your basic problem here. Something is not working right.

On the RPG Template, The RIGHT B button does work. BUT DOES NOT WORK on any other level.

I Just deleted my whole GameGuruApps folder in Documents, Let Max create a NEW one. Created a NEW PROJECT Created a NEW LEVEL Deleted HUD 0 Added RPG Screens. Loaded Into LEVEL Turned ON VR in Settings.

Tried in VR.

RIGHT A Button does NOTHING. RIGHT B Button does NOTHING.

LEFT A BUTTON does NOTHING. LEFT B BUTTON does NOTHING

BOTH GRIPS do the SAME, RUN .... ( WHY NOT HAVE ONE JUMP ????? )

LEFT STICK PRESS does NOTHING. LEFT STICK = Snap Turning

RIGHT STICK PRESS does NOTHING.

RIGHT STICK LEFT / RIGHT - Changes Weapons. RIGHT STICK DOWN = Reload RIGHT STICK UP = Fire Mode / Scope on Patrol Rifle

[Tum1370]

As you can see here, there are MANY buttons not doing anything.

Surely when you FIX the mapping issues. Let one UNUSED button do Jumping. Another could OPEN Inventory. or Another could OPEN MAP. etc.

Come on, You done an amazing job with Max, The levels in VR look really nice. Just then you finish off with a half hearted gameplay / implementation of basic stuff.

[Tum1370]

""No way of accessing the Quest Log = USER CAN ADD A BUTTON TO THE VR SCREEN -> QUEST LOG SCREEN""

This was posted as a fix, But where is this as well ?? Has this been not added to latest build, along with all the other fixes ??

[Tum1370]

@LeeBamberTGC I think i have figured out WHY the "RIGHT B Button" does not work, apart from on the RPG Template.

You have HARD CODED the VR SCREEN to HUD SCREEN 9

But that is causing problems due to people adding more HUD screens, Deleting HUD screens. The VR HUD SCREEN IS NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE HUD SCREEN 9.

And this BUG https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/4555 That i have reported is causing the other problem.

I added blanks screens, so i could actually add a HUD SCREEN 9, So i could Add this VR SCREEN. Then after adding buttons, for only MAP and INVENTORY which is what i currently want on my test game. You can see i have NO OPTIONS to select to GOTO these screens, DUE to the bug i just linked you to. The HUD Screen numbers in ACTIONS dont represent the HUD SCREENS that i have which are HUD SCREEN 4 for MAP, and HUD SCREEN 10 for INVENTORY.

I will make another BUG post regarding the SET IN STONE HUD SCREEN 9 for VR SCREEN. And i can then close the other bugs i created earlier.

[Tum1370]

Those ACTION buttons need to READ what HUD SCREENS are available to "GOTO HUD SCREEN ???" at the time of entering the HUD SCREEN your currently editing !