Propaganda Center Has little Armor Compared to other tech buildings

[MTKing4]

Let's be honest, it's pathetically weak, i think we should make a detailed comparison table between the three tech buildings in terms of hp, cost, and advantages/disadvantages

[ImTimK]

Strat

  ; ***DESIGN parameters ***
  DisplayName      = OBJECT:StrategyCenter
  Side = America
  EditorSorting    = STRUCTURE
  Prerequisites
    Object = AmericaWarFactory AmericaAirfield
  End
  CommandSet          = AmericaStrategyCenterCommandSet
  BuildCost           = 2500
  BuildTime           = 60.0           ; in seconds
  EnergyProduction    = -2
  VisionRange         = 400.0           ; Shroud clearing distance

  MaxSimultaneousOfType = 1

  ShroudClearingRange = 400
  WeaponSet
    Conditions           = None
    Weapon               = PRIMARY StrategyCenterGun
    AutoChooseSources    = PRIMARY NONE
  End
  ArmorSet
    Conditions      = None
    Armor           = StructureArmor
    DamageFX        = StructureDamageFXNoShake
  End
  ExperienceValue     = 250 250 250 250  ; Experience point value at each level

  ; *** ENGINEERING Parameters ***
  RadarPriority   = STRUCTURE
  KindOf          = PRELOAD STRUCTURE SELECTABLE IMMOBILE SCORE CAPTURABLE FS_TECHNOLOGY MP_COUNT_FOR_VICTORY FS_STRATEGY_CENTER FS_ADVANCED_TECH
  Body            = StructureBody ModuleTag_10
    MaxHealth       = 1500.0
    InitialHealth   = 1500.0

    ; Subdual damage "Subdues" you (reaction defined by BodyModule) when it passes your max health.
    ; The cap limits how extra-subdued you can be, and the other numbers detemine how fast it drains away on its own.
    SubdualDamageCap = 1700
    SubdualDamageHealRate = 500
    SubdualDamageHealAmount = 100
  End

Prop

; ***DESIGN parameters ***
  DisplayName         = OBJECT:PropagandaCenter
  Side                = China
  EditorSorting       = STRUCTURE
  Prerequisites
    Object            = ChinaWarFactory
  End
  BuildCost           = 2000
  BuildTime           = 45.0           ; in seconds
  EnergyProduction    = -2
  VisionRange         = 200.0           ; Shroud clearing distance
  ShroudClearingRange = 200
  ArmorSet
    Conditions        = None
    Armor             = StructureArmor
    DamageFX          = StructureDamageFXNoShake
  End
  CommandSet          = ChinaPropagandaCenterCommandSet
  ExperienceValue     = 200 200 200 200  ; Experience point value at each level

  ; *** ENGINEERING Parameters ***
  KindOf = PRELOAD STRUCTURE SELECTABLE IMMOBILE SCORE CAPTURABLE FS_TECHNOLOGY MP_COUNT_FOR_VICTORY FS_ADVANCED_TECH
  Body            = StructureBody ModuleTag_07
    MaxHealth     = 1000.0
    InitialHealth = 1000.0

    ; Subdual damage "Subdues" you (reaction defined by BodyModule) when it passes your max health.
    ; The cap limits how extra-subdued you can be, and the other numbers detemine how fast it drains away on its own.
    SubdualDamageCap = 1200
    SubdualDamageHealRate = 500
    SubdualDamageHealAmount = 100
  End

Palace

; ***DESIGN parameters ***
  DisplayName      = OBJECT:Palace
  Side = GLA
  EditorSorting    = STRUCTURE
  Prerequisites
    Object = GLAArmsDealer
  End
  BuildCost        = 2500
  BuildTime        = 45.0           ; in seconds
  EnergyProduction = 0
  VisionRange     = 300.0           ; Shroud clearing distance
  ShroudClearingRange = 300
  ArmorSet
    Conditions      = None
    Armor           = StructureArmor
    DamageFX        = StructureDamageFXNoShake
  End
  ArmorSet
    Conditions        = PLAYER_UPGRADE
    Armor             = GLAUpgradedStructureArmor
    DamageFX          = StructureDamageFXNoShake
  End
  CommandSet = GLAPalaceCommandSet
  ExperienceValue     = 300 300 300 300  ; Experience point value at each level

  ; *** ENGINEERING Parameters ***
  RadarPriority   = STRUCTURE
  KindOf          = PRELOAD STRUCTURE SELECTABLE IMMOBILE FS_TECHNOLOGY GARRISONABLE_UNTIL_DESTROYED IMMUNE_TO_CAPTURE MP_COUNT_FOR_VICTORY SCORE_CREATE FS_ADVANCED_TECH
  Body            = StructureBody ModuleTag_04
    MaxHealth       = 3000.0
    InitialHealth   = 3000.0

    ; Subdual damage "Subdues" you (reaction defined by BodyModule) when it passes your max health.
    ; The cap limits how extra-subdued you can be, and the other numbers detemine how fast it drains away on its own.
    SubdualDamageCap = 3200
    SubdualDamageHealRate = 500
    SubdualDamageHealAmount = 100
  End

[MavroGada2]

It can be at least as strong as strat which has more impact on game and can double its hp. 1250 hp maybe?

[xezon]

It is weak compared to Palace, but it is also 500 cheaper, builds quick, can build multiples, has small structure footprint.

[ImTimK]

Can also build multiple palaces, which is much more useful as it can be used as stronghold/bunker. The only advantage for the prop would be that you're able to rebuild it as soon as you know you're gonna lose your current, saving a few seconds but that's really it.

One pro that hasn't been mentioned yet though is the new free build-in prop tower.

[xezon]

I would like to close this report. Yes Propaganda is weak, but it costs 500 less, builds 15 seconds quicker than Strategy Center, 45 seconds quicker than Palace.

China gets its big units with Propaganda. Banking on the ability to mess with China's Tech Tree easily is nice. GLA can try to sneak in and kill the Propaganda strategically.

We can make China more competitive in other ways.

[MTKing4]

It's not about the difference in cost, it's the lost opportunity to build tech units and how easy it is to loose 2K for china that is not fair

If it's for the cost I'd rather it costs 2.5K with more HP than to what it is now

[xezon]

But China can build it deep in the base and defend it. Or build 2.

[MTKing4]

Building 2 cost 4K, that's not worth it, as for building deep, that doesn't work on all maps, besides most china's enemies have mobility and they will reach the prop regardless

[ImTimK]

Another way to look at it:

• Strat builds 33% slower than Prop.
• Strat is 25% more expensive.
• Strat has 50% more hp (200% more with HTL).
• Palace builds 100% slower (without power).
• Palace is 25% more expensive.
• Palace has 200% more hp (350% more with FS).

Does this look fair?

[MTKing4]

As i said, i do think that paying a little bit more and taking a bit more time is worth it for the extra HP, as china will always suffer extra cost and tech downtime anyway when prop is lost

I see it too many times where china gets screwed hard once prop is lost, it's determental to their win yet they spend a lot of their match time in tier 1 because of this

[Stubbjax]

I agree that the Propaganda Center only having as much health as a Barracks (and less than an Infantry General Barracks) is somewhat counterintuitive. Such a change should not only be looked at in a vacuum with the other tech buildings.

An increase of 500hp to 1500hp would match it with the Nuclear Reactor / Airfield and allow it to survive A10 Strike 1, Artillery Barrage 1, or a MiG firestorm. If balance or visibility is a concern, an increase of 200hp to 1200hp to match the Infantry General Barracks could be acceptable and reasonably subtle, though it wouldn't help it survive any of the aforementioned strikes.

[xezon]

I am skeptical of increase but I do not know better. We can try if you think it is correct course.

[xezon]

It looks like China has a health advantage over USA for the Power Plant. Is it not fair that China has weaker Tech Building, while it has stronger Power Plant?

ChinaPowerPlant Health: 1500 AmericaPowerPlant Health: 800

ChinaBarracks Health: 1000 AmericaBarracks Health: 1000

ChinaWarFactory Health: 2000 AmericaWarFactory Health: 2000

AmericaSupplyCenter Health: 2000 ChinaSupplyCenter Health: 2000

[ImTimK]

I think 200hp increase to match Inf Rax is fair, then it doesn't die to 2 terrorists, or 1 demo bike anymore, if mines aren't researched yet. Which is an absolute necessity in the majority of matchups, so that already makes the investment $2600.

Edit: wait, is this even true? Demo terrorist does more than 600 damage? Since 3 can take out USA WF?

As for comparing techbuilding to powerplant hp, I don't think it's meaningful to just look at this one factor. Both powerplants got their own pros and cons.

[fastAiRR]

Some points to mention:

• Yes it has weak health, I use rebel ambush sometimes to gun it down, with ap ammo its actually dead fast if you have level 2 ambush or higher. I like that
• Its worth mentioning that some china army lets you build multiple props. Now my memory is foggy here how this works, but I think there is one china, is it inf? Where you can have multiple props at same time. So in reality, you could build 2 to kind of mitigate its weak health.

[xezon]

All China factions can build unlimited amount of Propaganda Center.

[ImTimK]

GLA can build unlimited Palaces aswell. It's not worth it for either faction in normal games. Only as GLA when you're massive you can build more to bunker off flanks.

[MTKing4]

So a Quick Comparison with the 3 tech buildings

Cost & Build Time (maximum investment)

Prop Prop + mines= $2000@45s + $600@25s = $2600@65s

Strat $2500@60 + 3 Free Strategy Options

Palace $2500@90 + 5 RPG Slots

Health Points

Prop 1000HP

Strat 1500HP + Hold The Line = 3000HP

Palace 3000HP + Fortified Structure = 3200HP ?

Vision Range

Prop 200

Strat 400

Palace 300

[MTKing4]

Is there anything the prop is good at?

[MTKing4]

I think by that comparison it is fair to make its hp up to 1500HP as it will still be half as strong as the other two structures can be

[penfriendz]

The prop centre needs to at least survive one demobike or a level 1 A10.

[xezon]

Palace builds in 90 seconds.

Propaganda Center has a free Prop Tower. We could make the subliminal range of the Propaganda Center larger if it is too small.

[ImTimK]

Maybe if speakertower range is similar to strat stealth detection, or bunker/rpg range from the palace, then it doesn't need more hp. It would make China quite a bit better defensively. Although it feels less like native 1.04.

[MTKing4]

Palace builds in 90 seconds.

I took it from the code above, I'm asuming no power doubles it, will add that

[xezon]

Maybe if speakertower range is similar to strat stealth detection, or bunker/rpg range from the palace, then it doesn't need more hp. It would make China quite a bit better defensively. Although it feels less like native 1.04.

Because rarely players build Propaganda Towers.

[penfriendz]

The focus, imo, is on the durability of the structure itself; using secondary methods to balance this issue is inefficient.

[ImTimK]

Maybe if speakertower range is similar to strat stealth detection, or bunker/rpg range from the palace, then it doesn't need more hp. It would make China quite a bit better defensively. Although it feels less like native 1.04.

Because rarely players build Propaganda Towers.

I've seen good players use them, but they seem underrated overall and aren't adopted by everyone.

Anyways that's not the issue, giving the prop a free but normal speaker tower doesn't feel too strange, but if it's one with a huge radius it feels different and might be harder for people to accept such change?

[xezon]

Maybe should look at ranges first to draw conclusion. The upside of a very capable Propaganda effect on Propaganda Center is that players are encouraged to place the Center strategically in their base to benefit from the Subliminal Bonus in case of a base attack, while at the same time being mindful to not compound too many valuable buildings in a small space.