Stealing cash with GLA Saboteur plays UI withdraw sound

[xezon]

Stealing cash with GLA Saboteur plays UI withdraw sound. But stealing cash with China Black Lotus does not.

It appears that module(s)

  Behavior = SabotageSupplyCenterCrateCollide SabotageTag_05
    BuildingPickup  = Yes
    StealCashAmount = 1000
  End

plays back

AudioEvent MoneyWithdraw
  Sounds = ucreddna
  Control = random
  Limit = 3
  Volume = 30
  Priority    = low
  Type = ui player
End

Is likely hardcoded behaviour.

Lotus and Hacker will also trigger a radar event and "Enemy infiltration detected" message when stealing cash. Lotus is visible on Radar for a moment.

[MTKing4]

Ideally both should Play the sound

[xezon]

It depends whether or not sound is local. Withdrawal sound effects should not be audible to the enemy, because it would break the sneaky gameplay aspect of these units.

[commy2]

But the Saboteur plays a laugh effect globally when shutting down a building. It seems intentional.

[penfriendz]

Saboteur and black lotus can have different behaviour as black lotus doesn't disappear when performing an ability.

[xezon]

For sure, steal cash sound effect on Lotus would be more detrimental, but even on the Saboteur it is counter productive because it allows enemy to notice the steal effortlessly without map awareness, which in turn means that the enemy can then invest in stealth detection or mines or other measures to prevent future Saboteur attacks.

Saboteur cash steal should be stealthy in my opinion. Just like for Lotus. It's ok if there is a world sound. But it should not be a UI sound that player can hear from anywhere on the map.

[penfriendz]

Yes, I think the sound for saboteur cash steal can go.

[xezon]

I just tested it. There even is an EVA voice saying "Hackers are stealing cash". This makes the whole exercise very obvious.

[xezon]

Interestingly, this only happens in Patch, because of these fixes:

; Patch104p @bugfix xezon 09/05/2023 Fixes misspelled filename. (#1940)
DialogEvent EvaGLA_CashStolen
  Filename = egcashs.wav
  Volume= 90
End

; Patch104p @bugfix xezon 09/05/2023 Fixes misspelled filename. (#1940)
DialogEvent EvaChina_CashStolen
  Filename =  eccashs.wav
End

; Patch104p @bugfix xezon 09/05/2023 Fixes misspelled filename. (#1940)
DialogEvent EvaUSA_CashStolen
  Filename =  eucashs.wav
End

We can explicitly disable it to get rid of the sounds again.

[xezon]

On top of the withdraw sound, there also is a radar event which can be jumped to with space bar and a text "Enemy infiltration detected".

[MTKing4]

Removing it would be a design mistake imo, having an ability that has zero counterplay is bad, player shouldn't feel like he has no control over denying this, besides it's pretty stealthy already, the sound is very minuscule and can be easily go unheard with battles, and about the notification let me tell you that i didn't know about it for years while playing, this is how stealthy it already is, don't make it too easy to abuse by the owning player, the current setup is good.

[MTKing4]

Also losing cash without any visual or sound feedback is awful and a frustrating experience

[xezon]

Perhaps. I think the reason this goes unnoticed is because Saboteur is seldom used to steal cash.

[ImTimK]

If silent cash steal is fine for lotus then it should be fine for saboteurs aswell, it can only be used once after all. A sound notification after the fact isn't needed, you just got to be ready and aware when having a stealth as opponent.

There's also plenty of counterplay, usa has alot of stealth detection, china can mine buildings.

[MTKing4]

The sound and notification are useful the next time the enemy sends a saboteur, you're not going to spend extra cash and attention on a problem you haven't even noticed. Also saboteur is available for GLA as well, not just stealth

[ImTimK]

That's my point, it should be a repeatable tactic versus unaware players. Imo you don't deserve a clear and loud notification for failing at predicting/stopping enemy tactics. Or if you look at it from the other player's perspective, being punished for being succesful.

I doubt it's going to be meta anyway, but it allows for creative players to use these alternative tactics more often and be rewarded for it, not easily be a waste of APM/money (and giving enemy xp, quite punishing overall).

[MTKing4]

It's not really loud nor clear though, it can be easily missed, and it's not like knowing about it will eliminate repetition, you see people get their heroes Detected and lost all the time but they rebuild them and find other ways in, bottom line is if it's cost-effective, people will rebuild it and find ways in somehow.

Personally, i don't like the idea of losing money with zero feedback, it's the same as not notifying you when your base is under attack or when lotus is capturing your buildings, you don't deserve a loud notification, you should be able to tell on your own, that's a regression.

[xezon]

The sound indeed is quiet. It is the radar event, text and sound combined that will likely make it obvious though. If player misses it, then he is not paying attention to game.

[commy2]

It's good that it's obvious. Players need feedback about what's going on in the game. The money counter is constantly moving due to supplies and secondary eco. Having to monitor the money counter and doing the > < math constantly is unreasonable and not enjoyable gameplay. Destructive super powers and attacks on the flanks also triggers radar events and eva messages. They were deliberately added for the Saboteur, because there would be no "under attack" radar event otherwise.

[ImTimK]

The sound indeed is quiet. It is the radar event, text and sound combined that will likely make it obvious though. If player misses it, then he is not paying attention to game.

Could just make the sound a bit louder.

I don't get why it got to be much more obvious than Lotus cash steal, equalizing it is fine though, Lotus steal process takes longer and has more visual clues.