China Battlemaster is rarely used

[xezon]

China Battlemaster is rarely used. It drives slow.

Change that is good for Battlemaster already:

• 412

• 1815

Original Movement Stats

Object	Speed
China Battlemaster	25
China Battlemaster Upgraded	35
Tank China Battlemaster	25
Tank China Battlemaster Upgraded	35
Nuke China Battlemaster	45
China Overlord	20
China Overlord Upgraded	30
Tank China Emperor	20
Tank China Emperor Upgraded	30
Nuke China Overlord	40
China Dragon Tank	30
China Gattling	40
China Outpost	40
China ECM	40
USA Crusader	30
USA Humvee	60

Original Weapon Stats

DPS based on damage since they all have similar RoF and all DPU = depleted uranium shells AL = autoloaders WGU = weapons grade uranium shells (cut upgrade)

Object	DPS
China Battlemaster	60
China Battlemaster + DPU	75
Tank China Battlemaster	60
Tank China Battlemaster + DPU	75
Tank China Battlemaster + AL	120 (40x3)
Tank China Battlemaster + AL + DPU	150 (50x3)
Nuke China Battlemaster	60 + Radiation
China Overlord	160 ( 80x2)
China Overlord + DPU	200 (100x2)
Tank China Emperor	160 ( 80x2)
Nuke China Overlord	160 ( 80x2) + Radiation

Proposal 1

Increase movement speed. Done with

• 1815

Proposal 2

Increase movement speed with Nuclear Tanks upgrade. Done with

• 1815

Proposal 3

Add radiation puddle with Uranium Shells upgrade.

Proposal 4

Reduce cost

[xezon]

Looks safe to me to raise movement speed to at least 29 to match China Tank Battlemaster.

[commy2]

25 is unfortunate for BM, as its main use is countering flanking Dragons, but they can escape, because they are faster.

[MTKing4]

I think making: Vchina BM 30 upgrading to 35 Overload 25 upgrading to 30 Would be a good change

[ImTimK]

About 20% increase for both Vanilla BM & Overlord.

vBM 30 to 40 upgraded. vOverlord 25 to 35 upgraded.

I think making: Vchina BM 30 upgrading to 35 Overload 25 upgrading to 30 Would be a good change

I feel the upgrade difference (+5) is a bit too small. If my numbers (+10) are too big then +7.5 could also maybe feel right.

[MTKing4]

Maybe, we could start with any of these numbers and dial back if it's too much then

[xezon]

I think making: Vchina BM 30 upgrading to 35 Overload 25 upgrading to 30 Would be a good change

This also looks reasonable to me, however, where would that leave Tank General? He still would be as slow as before, and Vanilla China is better.

[ImTimK]

I think making: Vchina BM 30 upgrading to 35 Overload 25 upgrading to 30 Would be a good change

This also looks reasonable to me, however, where would that leave Tank General? He still would be as slow as before, and Vanilla China is better.

Should receive exact same treatment, so we have to be careful. With proposed changes (including my own) Tank might become too scary.

I'm actually changing my proposal:

BM 27.5 > 36.5 OL/EMP 23.5 > 32.5

I know numbers are kind of odd, but I think it would feel right.

[xezon]

Weapon Stats added.

[xezon]

Enlima29

my proposal for speed, adjust nuke general tank speed to be equal with Nuclear Tank upgraded speed, and give them the old speed with revived Fusion Reactor upgrade exclusive for Tao

vanilla BM: 25 upgraded BM: 35 (nuclear tank upgrade) Nuke BM: 35 Nuke upgraded BM: 45 (fusion reactor upgrade)

vanilla overlord: 20 upgraded overlord: 30 (nuclear tank upgrade) Nuke overlord: 30 Nuke upgraded overlord: 40 (new, fusion reactor upgrade)

Enlima29

for some reason nuke general tanks didn't get dmg bonus from the free DPU because the bonus module is set to the wrong upgrade (WGU instead DPU) some might argue that they got radiation fields in return, but since my goal here to make them equal to the upgraded china tanks stats, I propose to revive the WGU upgrade to mitigate the "lost" benefits there are two ways I can think of:

1. keep the current weapon damage as is, then use the new WGU upgrade to make these tanks gets the missing +25% damage bonus post upgrade Nuke BM: 60 + radiation Nuke WGU BM: 75 + radiation Nuke overlord: 160 (80x2) + radiation Nuke WGU overlord: 200 (100x2) + radiation

2. make the nuke tanks damage same as DPU tanks damage (so it stays true to the nuke general perk description), but remove the radiation. then use the WGU upgrade to give them the radiation fields back Nuke BM: 75 Nuke WGU BM: 75 + radiation Nuke overlord: 200 (100x2) Nuke WGU overlord: 200 (100x2) + radiation

for me personally, I implemented the first one in my mod, but the second one feels more right for leveled upgrade progression unless if you think the current stats is good then fine I guess

[MTKing4]

I think making: Vchina BM 30 upgrading to 35 Overload 25 upgrading to 30 Would be a good change

This also looks reasonable to me, however, where would that leave Tank General? He still would be as slow as before, and Vanilla China is better.

The same can be applied to tank of course

[Jundiyy]

Think Exile and MTKing have got it. Small increase for both but as mentioned, Tank night become too good.

[EnigmaZift]

30 speed would be perfect for the Battlemaster

[ImTimK]

Make price the same as Tank BM, think it's the least controversial thing to start with. Looking into pricing after other buffs makes no sense, it's a balance value just the EXP changes we did.

Do the same with Dragons and you have more competitive army already (will help vs GLA).

[commy2]

the least controversial thing to start with

Uh, Tank is supposed to have the cheapest tanks. And there is nothing wrong with the price of Dragon Tanks either imo.

[ImTimK]

the least controversial thing to start with

Uh, Tank is supposed to have the cheapest tanks. And there is nothing wrong with the price of Dragon Tanks either imo.

That's true, however you could also say technology wise there's no difference between Tank and ChinaV, Tank just has the more experienced Tank crew. Nuke does have the better technology, so that could explain the higher price (same as the Nuclear Reactor as quick example).

700 Dragons would help alot vs all GLA's and a little bit vs Inf (in ChinaV mirror it's offset by cheaper BM again).

[ImTimK]

Overall Tank produces Gats the most, so there you can use the argument that Tank can produce them cheaper because it sources the materials for those units in higher quantities. < Gotta be bit creative with the logic sometimes :D

[xezon]

I think it is better to look at prices later. For Flame Tank we still need to look into Flame EXP.

[xezon]

Battlemaster drives faster now. Anything else we need to do or close?

[ImTimK]

Is it worth $800 now? If it is, then yes.

Otherwise a price reduction is still optional.

[xezon]

Ok apart from price reduction, anything else to do?

[ImTimK]

maybe vet0 xp reduction, but that should be for all tanks from all factions, this doesn't affect tank gen.

[xezon]

Not clear to me if 700 price is ok. Looks cheap compared to the other tanks.

[ImTimK]

Same as Tank BM, but without the veterancy, so theoretically should be ok?

[xezon]

Cheap and vetted tanks is the main perk of Tank General, at the expense of no artillery units, expensive infantry and aircraft. Regular China has none of these penalties. We gave China already many other buffs, perhaps it is ok as is for now?

[ImTimK]

Not sure if it's needed for China as a faction, but what direct buffs has the vBM gotten so far? Only the speed one right? (the XP buff affects Tank mainly). Do we expect it to be used more often now?

Now EA intended it to be a main battle tank, but ofcourse that shouldn't be our goal because that would be a complete meta change.

[xezon]

Perhaps we should compare key stats with the Crusader Tank to evaluate its relative strength.

[ImTimK]

We have to be careful not buffing Tank too much, because pretty much all stats are shared, except XP values.

[ImTimK]

I forgot vet0 was already -30% less with the general XP reduction for tanks. Then perhaps it could be closed for now, if price reduction is off the table.

[MTKing4]

I think that is it for now, I think the speed had a major role in its lack of use, maybe now it'll be more useful, if not we can visit the price reduction in the future