Should Laser Tanks require power?

[ZekeDlyoung]

In VZH Laser Tanks require 1 power to operate, this is not only a weird mechanic, but it creates a few issues:

1. It makes Laser Gen pretty defenseless when low powered
2. Even while you are low powered, Laser Tanks will still continue to build and clog up your War Factory for a while even after your power returns
3. It requires a larger investment to build an army with Laser Gen as you have to build power plants as well, which seems like a lot for a unit that's only marginally better than a Crusader

Proposal 1

Remove power requirement entirely

Proposal 2

Give it a global control rods upgrade that cancels out its power consumption, so it still gets disabled when you get low powered, but it doesn't slowly eat up your power when spammed

Proposal 3

Improve its performance to make it worth having to go through all the trouble of building power plants (i.e. give it explosion damage to make it good against infantry as well)

Proposal 4

Keep Laser Tank Power consumption, but do not power them off on low power.

Proposal 5

On low power, disable turret but keep the ability to drive.

Proposal 6

Reverse of proposal 5: Keep immobilization but keep turret operable.

[ImTimK]

I think low power penalty is very harsh currently, it's easy to make a mistake and not have enough power, there are also numerous ways to lose reactors, even just one Saboteur can render an entire army useless. It's indeed a huge liability to mass produce Laser Crusaders. Vanilla USA Tank spam might be less (cost) effective but isn't completely screwed when this happens.

Proposal: Lower penalty by disabling the turret but keeping the ability to drive.

Or reverse: Keep it immobilized but with an operable turret.

[xezon]

Reopen or keep close?

[xezon]

The way I see it that Laser Tanks are a liability. It is better to not build them. 2 or so enemy Auroras are enough to shutdown Laser tanks by targeting upgraded Power plants.

[ImTimK]

Keep open I think.

[MTKing4]

Proposal: Lower penalty by disabling the turret but keeping the ability to drive.

If we can agree on this then yeah sure it's a good change that i favor, otherwise no point keeping it open if we can't agree on anything.

[xezon]

Proposal: Lower penalty by disabling the turret but keeping the ability to drive.

Reads good to me. Allows affected player to retreat in case of emergency and therefore lowers the penalty. This would require code changes though I think. A feature to power off the weapon only.

[xezon]

Proposal 3 Improve its performance to make it worth having to go through all the trouble of building power plants (i.e. give it explosion damage to make it good against infantry as well)

This is an interesting option too. It looks odd that the Crusader Laser is so weak vs infantry, when the Laser Turret is so much stronger. If performance of Laser Tank is improved, then it can be a real option to use more often early and risk its penalties. It would also combine well with reduced effectiveness of Pathfinders (#690).

To implement this gracefully we would need a new Armor/Damage type however, which is only possible with Thyme, otherwise we would not be able to properly fine tune without affecting a whole lot of other damages.

[commy2]

Laser tank already does 80 damage vs 60 of Crusader/Paladin/Battlemaster/Marauder. That's +33%, a very good upgrade.

[MTKing4]

I really feel that laser tanks are are already too good and not in need of any kind of buff

[xezon]

I really feel that laser tanks are are already too good and not in need of any kind of buff

Hmm. But if this was true, why are they so rarely build? In World Series matches you never see them. Humvees all the way.

[commy2]

That's because Humvees are OP thanks to S&D MD range, Ambo repair and cheap Scout Drones with 3.5 times as many hp as in CCG. You're not going to change that by buffing the Laser tank without screwing over Laser vs Tank/Nuke/vChina tank battle balance.

[MTKing4]

Like commy said, and also because they're slower than Vees.

In Laser vs chinas is where you see them built, they're very strong against things like overlords and emperors, they also demolish every other army with their laser tank + Avenger combo in lategame FFAs

[xezon]

That is as long as the power is up.

I still think Laser Tanks are a liability. Not worth to build when you can have Humvees + Avenger.

[MTKing4]

Usually in those games laser would've built a million powerplant surrounded with laser turrets everywhere, you can try to stop it by killing the power, but it's almost pointless at this point as you need to kill way to many powerplants before he's out of power, and even then, he can rebuild very quickly

I'm speaking of that lategame strategy of course

[ReLaX82]

Those tanks are mostly used in team games and 1v1 vs Nuke, vChina or Tank. The option to have it more useful vs infantry I like as well. Go for the option to disable the laser while on low power maybe and increase effectiveness vs infantry.

[commy2]

I tried if POWERED state can be combined with portable turrets like Overlord and Avenger, to make it so only the turret can be shut down.

But adding POWERED to the Avenger turret crashes the game once you lose power, so that doesn't work.

Ref; https://github.com/TheSuperHackers/Thyme/issues/6

[xezon]

Of course it crashes :D

[MTKing4]

Close until thyme then?

[fastAiRR]

I just randomly saw this post, so thought I would leave my opinion, even if outdated.

Its stupid that the laser tank turns off when it loses power, after all, its not exactly got a cable plugged in the back of it, running from your base. Surely it has a battery or even, it generates its own power.

But, killing the power plants of an enemy to disable his massive laser tank army is such a cool and unique strategy. It should therefore never be removed from the game. If it was, you are killing the character of the game, one of the very things that makes it what it is.