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TiddlyWiki / TiddlyWiki5

A self-contained JavaScript wiki for the browser, Node.js, AWS Lambda etc.
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tw5.com HelloThere tiddler: link to Features #4067

Open BurningTreeC opened 5 years ago

BurningTreeC commented 5 years ago

Hello there,

I believe the Features tiddler should get a link in the HelloThere tiddler so that the features list stands out, it's a pretty good starting point for discovering features and mechanisms

BurningTreeC commented 5 years ago

... and I believe that the various mechanisms should show up in "Features"

BurningTreeC commented 5 years ago

... like PopupMechanism, InfoMechanism etc.

Jermolene commented 5 years ago

Hi @BurningTreeC I'm not sure why you closed this, it's a good suggestion...

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@BurningTreeC, @Jermolene it's a good suggestion but the "Feature" tiddler it's not very attractive it its current form. It should be some kind of WOW! presentation not a simple list with awkward titles IMO. The first page I'm looking for when faced with a new app it's the feature/capabilities page to see if the app can fulfill my needs. I don't waste my time browsing through docs. Believe me it's the most important page off all the pages.

BurningTreeC commented 5 years ago

@morosanuae I think you're right, we could make screenshots of features and add similar pictures like the HelloThere tiddler shows

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@BurningTreeC I don't know if we can make screenshots for all the features. Not all have a visual component. And to be honest I don't know if they will help. IMO suggestive icons/pictures should do the trick. But I think it's more than that. The features page should have an attractive design. Simple, catchy, consistent and very well structured. A new user should understand it at a glance. But I think this is just the peak of an giant iceberg that involve the design of the entire docs system.

BurningTreeC commented 5 years ago

I've made a "Feature Cloud" using the d3.js plugin for the HelloThere Thumbnail:

Bildschirmfoto vom 2019-07-17 07-00-20

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@BurningTreeC I was thinking of something like that for the actual features tiddler: screenshot

BurningTreeC commented 5 years ago

@morosanuae looks great, can you make something like this?

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@BurningTreeC I think so, but would take a while to find all the appropriate icons. I will try to create a demo for some of the features to see how it goes.

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@BurningTreeC and others I've created a demo at: http://features-demo.tiddlyspot.com. Please tell me what you think. The list is generated automatically by adding caption, icon and summary fields to each feature tiddler.

Jermolene commented 5 years ago

Hi @morosanuae it's a good idea. The key, as you've already shown, is to share mockups or examples lifted from elsewhere. If I may suggest, don't spend too long looking for the icons before sharing further mockups; all that's needed is some placeholders that roughly express what you want. If we adopted this I'd probably want to make the icons be part of the core icon set, which means that they would need to match the existing metrics, and we're unlikely to find such icons off-the-shelf, they'll need to be custom drawn. But we shouldn't go to that much trouble until we get a bit further through the process.

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@Jermolene

If we adopted this I'd probably want to make the icons be part of the core icon set, which means that they would need to match the existing metrics, and we're unlikely to find such icons off-the-shelf, they'll need to be custom drawn.

Can we find someone to help us create the custom icons that we need? I 'm not an expert in graphic design.

But we shouldn't go to that much trouble until we get a bit further through the process.

What would be the next step in the process?

Jermolene commented 5 years ago

Hi @morosanuae apologies for the confusion. My previous post was attempting to say please don't worry about getting the icons right in the first instance, just use placeholders. Focusing on the icons at this point is a mistake, because we should focus on communicating the overall idea that is being proposed.

In any event, the icons would need to match the dimensions of those in the core icon library, which were hand drawn by me. We're unlikely to find off-the-shelf icons that match our metrics, so the new icons are likely to need to be custom made. It doesn't necessarily have to be done by me, but we would have to maintain the quality of the existing icons.

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@Jermolene OK I understand, thanks. In conclusion, I guess we have to wait for feedback from other users if they agree with my proposal or not. Maybe some of them will be willing to help us, with the overall design, creating the necessary icons and even with the text formulations, because I'm not a native English speaker. It should be a team work! @BurningTreeC, @pmario and others, can you share your thoughts about this?

twMat commented 5 years ago

Yes, before icons we need to define the purpose: The first thing to ask is "who is the reader?" IMO it is the casual visitor who wants to see what this TinkiWinki thing is all about. He (...yeah, it is a he) is necessarily somewhat computer savvy but at what level? This greatly affects what "features" are of interest:

(We could cater to all groups and e.g use "accordion buttons" to show features of increasing "advancedness". But the default view should reasonably show what hooks "the most" visitors.)

I also think it is important to convey that "this thing is intended for hacking". This is what makes TW unique. Anyone coming with expectations of an already specialized application, say, "Evernote" will probably be disappointed. TiddlyWiki is a lump of clay, not a pot, but it does come in a nice brick shape to begin with.

So, whaddyasay, who is the audience? Is another demographic slicing more suitable?

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@twMat We can, for example, put the features in some basic to advanced order with gradual colors, from green (basic feature), to red (advanced/more technical features). IMO it should be just a single "Features" page aimed to all kind of visitors (even from another planet :wink:). And for that purpose all the features should be explained in a language for everyone. It can be made IMO. But I don't think it should contain absolutely all the features. Only the most important/major ones. We don't want to make the "Features" page a reference one.

twMat commented 5 years ago

From the currently listed features, IMO the following are relevant for the three "levels" outlined above.

basic

medium

advanced

Disqualified

From the currently listed, the following are probably assumed or not spontaneously thought of by a casual visitor at this point in time:

Lacking

What is most striking is how much that is not mentioned, including the very first things people should hear about like:

Many feature are not direct "mechanisms" but more about what is possible. (Like "Future proof" which is listed)

BTW this OP is relevant for #3925

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

@twMat what you have done it's a good starting point IMO. I'll wait for the feedback from others also because I don't know if this will be adopted.

morosanuae commented 5 years ago

I've created a second version for my initial mockup. Now the levels (mentioned by @twMat) are shown in gradual colors.

See it here: http://features-demo.tiddlyspot.com/#Features%20(proposal)%20v2

BurningTreeC commented 4 years ago

@Jermolene any thoughts about this?

pmario commented 4 years ago

See it here: http://features-demo.tiddlyspot.com/#Features%20(proposal)%20v2

I do like the concept. But the text in the "cards" is way to small. Both the heading and the text. The text is 15px ... We need to use em or rem .. so browser settings do matter.