Rename this repository to "TiddlyWikiClassic"

[Jermolene]

I am trying to consolidate all the various TiddlyWiki repositories into this organisation (https://github.com/TiddlyWiki). There's a ticket in the TW5 repo explaining the plans: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/6565.

Eventually, I intend to migrate TiddlyWiki 5 to this organisation too at https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/TiddlyWiki5

To make things less confusing for users, I propose that we rename this repository to "TiddlyWikiClassic".

It is important to note that GitHub redirects everything when a repository is renamed. So, after the change, users who try to visit https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/TiddlyWiki will be automatically redirected to https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/TiddlyWikiClassic.

[pmario]

@YakovL Is there still something going on with TWc?

[YakovL]

@pmario yes, I still have some developments and plans (release 2.9.3, improve dev tools and docs update workflow, release various extensions), but since I dived into product development in 2021, my focus shifted considerably and I can't predict when I continue delivering new updates, especially now when we decided to leave Russia due to various obvious and not-that-obvious concerns.

Note that currently repo name is used not only by users, but also by Gitlab Actions inside the docs repo, so several preparation steps will be required to rename it without breaking things.

[Jermolene]

Good to hear from you @YakovL, and I'm delighted you've got future plans for TWC.

Note that currently repo name is used not only by users, but also by Gitlab Actions inside the docs repo, so several preparation steps will be required to rename it without breaking things.

I think the dependency would be this line:

https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/tiddlywiki.github.com/blob/dcd9be79ae2197b7b7fd46563e8f569199c10232/.github/workflows/build-from-source.yaml#L25

GitHub redirects to the new name with a 301 over HTTPS which means that the clone would succeed. But of course it should be changed at the same time for clarity.

[YakovL]

Yes, exactly!

[Jermolene]

Great! Is this a good time to go ahead and do the rename? I'd be happy to make a PR to tiddlywiki.github.com as discussed above too.

[qbroker]

Very good to consolidate TW into one organization.

[qbroker]

Apart from the comment here above I had a remark that was lost in the process. The proposed name TiddlyWikiClassic is abbreviated as TWC, this has a prominent WC and TWC is not a wikiword. Can we use TiddlyWiki-classic or TiddlyWiki classic, and abbreviate to TWc which is a wikiword. I think TWc looks just a little more classier than TWC, is it important, I leave it up to you.

Have a nice day, Okido

[Jermolene]

@YakovL I'd like to go ahead with this change if you're still OK with it?

I still favour TiddlyWikiClassic because I don't think it's important that the abbreviation be a camelcase word; the current "TW" abbreviation is not a camelcase word after all.

[YakovL]

Hi @Jermolene yeah, let's do this, I'll update the necessary bits accordingly.

At some point, when I modernize the core enough, I'd like to rename it to TiddlyWikiCreative (I've even named a Tg channel accordingly), I hope we can do this as well.

[Jermolene]

Hi @Jermolene yeah, let's do this, I'll update the necessary bits accordingly.

Great, thank you. I'll post here when it's done.

At some point, when I modernize the core enough, I'd like to rename it to TiddlyWikiCreative (I've even named a Tg channel accordingly), I hope we can do this as well.

That's an interesting idea. I assume that the motivation is to move away from the idea that TiddlyWikiClassic is old and out of date?

My only concern with the name TiddlyWikiCreative is that it doesn't really capture what's different from TiddlyWiki5. Also it would imply changing the URL from classic.tiddlywiki.com which has quite a few implications. Perhaps an alternative would be to retain the "classic" name but adopt a new subtitle?

[Jermolene]

I've performed the rename. Do let me know if there are any issues.

[YakovL]

I assume that the motivation is to move away from the idea that TiddlyWikiClassic is old and out of date?

Yeap, that's the idea. I'd like to remove the "new users block" which is the branding that suggests TWC to be old and TW5 to be strictly better (hence the way to go for any new user). My idea is TW5 is just another software, like Notion vs Coda.

My only concern with the name TiddlyWikiCreative is that it doesn't really capture what's different from TiddlyWiki5.

Well, I think that rebranding will make sense only after some considerable changes, I'm not sure which ones yet, but once I implement full WYSIWYG and extensions explorer, I'll consider introducing them into the core. Such features may justify the word "creative". But in fact removing "classic" from the title should be done after some architecture problems are fixed, like lack of async saving (will probably be in 2.9.4, or at least async loading), forward-compatibility of configuration (as opposed to shadow tiddlers), etc; and also the UI should meet today's expectations, like responsiveness or absence of gradients like the one in the current header :)

Indeed, it's not that easy to recognize when to use one or another, but it's not easy already, only the current name suggests that TWC shouldn't be used at all.

Also it would imply changing the URL from classic.tiddlywiki.com which has quite a few implications. Perhaps an alternative would be to retain the "classic" name but adopt a new subtitle?

I don't think this solves the issue. A possible alternative is not to rebrand TiddlyWikiClassic, but to tell that TiddlyWikiCreative as a fully-compatible successor, and keep the classic site almost "as is", just pointing to the new one, plus the upgrade folder should have a new version which will points to the new site for next upgrades, plus may be some other places.

[Jermolene]

Hi @YakovL apologies for the delayed response.

Yeap, that's the idea. I'd like to remove the "new users block" which is the branding that suggests TWC to be old and TW5 to be strictly better (hence the way to go for any new user). My idea is TW5 is just another software, like Notion vs Coda.

That is a reasonable suggestion, but it does conflict with other goals of the overall project:

• TW5 is newer than TWC. While that might not make TW5 better in all situations for all users, it is the basic relationship between the two, and therefore it is important that we communicate it clearly
• From my perspective, TW5 would be recommended for most new users because it is more mature and capable, and has a larger active community

Well, I think that rebranding will make sense only after some considerable changes, I'm not sure which ones yet, but once I implement full WYSIWYG and extensions explorer, I'll consider introducing them into the core. Such features may justify the word "creative". But in fact removing "classic" from the title should be done after some architecture problems are fixed, like lack of async saving (will probably be in 2.9.4, or at least async loading), forward-compatibility of configuration (as opposed to shadow tiddlers), etc; and also the UI should meet today's expectations, like responsiveness or absence of gradients like the one in the current header :)

Those are ambitious and exciting plans and I’m sure would be popular with users.

If this future version is to break backwards compatibility to a significant extent, I wonder if the best path forward might be to consider completely rebranding TiddlyWiki Classic to move away from the TiddlyWiki name entirely, giving it a new domain name and new GitHub organisation. Essentially it would become a new fork of TWC, and be free to appeal to users on its own merits, without being under the shadow of TW5.

Indeed, it's not that easy to recognize when to use one or another, but it's not easy already, only the current name suggests that TWC shouldn't be used at all.

In the first instance, we might want to address that by updating/improving the content at https://classic.tiddlywiki.com/ and in the readme at https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/TiddlyWikiClassic to make it clearer that TWC is actively developed.

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Given that these changes are not imminent we’ve got some time to think things over and discuss the options. My position is that I’d love to see a revitalised TiddlyWiki Classic, and my main concern is making sure that we communicate clearly to new users.

[pmario]

... to make it clearer that TWC is actively developed.

IMO that would be relatively easy to fix. ...

So going for the low hanging fruits IMO would be to update HelloThere and GettingStarted with new modified dates. I'd keep the created dates because they are "kind of cool" ... at least for me ;)