Consistency question - Lithuanian language in item names

[Xenobius2501]

Hello.

So far I've been mostly reading the forums, but recently one thing caught my attention. As you probably know by now, a large number of in-game terms (locations, NPC names, items and recipes etc.) contain Lithuanian words.

In case of NPCs, cities and most locations it's reasonable, although IMO, some names like Kvailas Forest (stupid forest), Akmens Ridge (stone ridge), Verkti Square/Apsimesti Crossroad ("To Cry" Square/"To Pretend" Crossroad - yes, they used infinitive form of Lithuanian verbs) are somewhat sketchy, in case of items it's inconsistent, to say the least.

For example, many of rather common items (food or alchemy ingredients, as far as I can tell, since I haven't played the game yet) are in English - there's Onion, Garlic, Acorn, Peach and Strawberry, but some of them are in Lithuanian for no apparent reason - there's Aviete (Raspberry), Salavijas (Sage plant), Ramune (Chamomile), Medus (Honey), Dilgele (Nettle) and so on - which I personally find rather confusing.

Similarly, most of equipment is in English (Miner Hammer, Royal Mace, Ice Rod and the like) - but some item names contain seemingly random Lithuanian words - there's Sunkus Maul - which simply means "Heavy Maul", Bendras Sword ("bendras" could be very roughly translated as "common"), Saltas Staff ("saltas" means "cold") and probably the worst offenders - Zalia Leather Gloves/Boots/Pants Armor/Kite Shield - because "zalia" is Lithuanian for green, more specifically, it's a gender-specific form of "green" only used to denote "feminine" nouns, masculine form being "zalias".

Long story short, it brings us to the question - is such inconsistent naming policy (English terms with random bits of Lithuanian here and there) a case of "working as intended" or something should be done about it? Now, I do realize there aren't exactly many Lithuanian players, it's a small country after all, but to people actually familiar with the language such things appear rather silly at best.

As you might have guessed by now I happen to know Lithuanian language myself, and while I'm not even close to being a professional linguist I could (if necessary), given some time, point out such cases and perhaps suggest translations - that is, if leaving it the way it is wasn't the grand plan all along.

[ensata]

Well. You might not be a linguist, but if you know what an infinitive is, you know more than most people.

For the most part it appears to be Konglish for the sake of looking cool. Not the most positive outlook, but it's the obvious one. A good chunk of it comes from the Wiki Reference, which is only edited by IMC. It hasn't really been maintained or improved very much... but they're the ones with the final say on it.

There's probably a lot more to discuss, but I'm interested in the map names at the moment — I think the whole list needs to be checked and cleaned for the sake of the closed beta, since it'll greatly assist in having consistent communication and bug reports. I was planning on doing it soon. Hopefully I can get something accepted and pushed in time for the beta distro, but time's a bit tight.

Do you think you can look over the map list and share what you think? The sub-area names are the most confusing part. It's just on this wiki page: https://github.com/Treeofsavior/EnglishTranslation/wiki/2.2.%20Map

You should probably make your own table for it, so it can have extra columns for translations and notes.

[imcgames]

English terms with random bits of Lithuanian here and there are actually intended. So terms like Sunkus Maul, Saltas Staff and such, yes they are meant to be that way :sweat_smile: However, I wasn't aware of cases like "zalia" with the feminine and masculine form (though I'll have to check with dev if they really wanted the female form) so if there are things like those that should really be changed, feel free to let us know and we'll be open to hear out suggestions.

[Xenobius2501]

It's unlikely I'll have enough time to thoroughly examine every line during work hours (that'll have to wait till weekend) but from a first glance here's what I noticed:

First and foremost, in almost all cases where Lithuanian was used, cases are wrong (pun not intended) i.e. there's for example, Dvasia Peak, which literally means "Soul/Spirit Peak". Might sound ok in English, but problem is, in Lithuanian this specific form (Dvasia) is a singular nominative case, while the whole location name implies possessive case - Peak of Souls or Soul's Peak - which would be Dvasiu Peak (plural) or Dvasios Peak (singular) in Lithuanian.

Some examples:

베야 골짜기 Veja Ravine - "veja" means "grass lawn". 비에타 계곡 Vieta gorge - "vieta" means "place", not much sense here at all. 셉티니 골 Septyni Glen - "septyni" is a numerical, "seven". Maybe "Seventh", at least? 파우피스 나루(터) Paupys Port - "paupys" means "riverside", so it's a "riverside port". 포슬린키스 숲 Poslinkis Forest - poslinkis is a "slip", so perhaps a "slipping forest"? 사크니스 벌판 Saknis Plains "saknis" means root, and since there is also an entry 큰뿌리 벌 which is Great Root Plain I'm wondering if it's a duplicate...

시르드겔라 숲 Sirdgela Forest - "sirdgela" is "heartache", and the name itself is on the okay-ish side, I think, except that correct case would be "Sirdgelos". 크바일라스 숲 Kvailas Forest - Stupid Forest. Literally. If Fool's Forest was intended it had to be "Kvailio Forest". 드바시아 고개 Dvasia Peak - see above. 람스티스 협곡 Ramstis Ridge - Pillar Ridge 아크멘스 능선 Akmens Ridge - Stone's Ridge. Also, one of the VERY few cases where possessive form is used correctly, 틸타스 협곡 Tiltas Valley - Bridge Valley. Again, there's a 긴다리 계곡 Overlong Bridge Valley as well - chance of a duplicate? 루카스 고원 Rukas Plateau - Rukas means "mist". Again, 무무고원 Dense Mist Plateau - duplicate?

에산치우 마을 Escanciu Village - this one's tricky. There's a Lithuanian word "ieškančių" - possessive case, it means "Seekers' ". Problem is, it's pronounced (approximately) like "Yesh-kan-chuu", Escanciu is a rather bad phonetic match.

At any rate, I'll likely need screenshots of some places to correctly guess the intended meaning behind them, and with imcgames reply above in mind, how much correction is needed if at all.

As for sub-area names, IMO they badly need a re-work - it's a horrid mess of completely random nouns, verbs and adjectives. Just to name a few, you've got areas called:

카베티 Kabeti - "to hang" 브랑긴티 Branginti - "to cherish" 미르쉬타 Mirshta - "is dying" 네베키아 Nevekia - "Doesn't work" 나우딩가스 Naudingas - "Useful" 알쿠네 Alkune - "Elbow" 렝바스 Lengvas - "Light" or "Easy" depending on context 암지나 Amzina - "Eternal"

I'll need more time to examine it thoroughly but I'll say it again - sub-areas are in a sorry state.

[imcgames]

Well the Lithuanian names used actually contain the meanings we wanted to put in. I guess it's really a matter of how it was used :sweat_smile: As for some names that you see duplicates, the English version is most probably the name before it was changed to the current which use Lithuanian. In which case then, from the above, would these be the ones that need to be changed?

Sirdgela -> Sirdgelos
Kvailas -> Kvailio

[ensata]

I didn't expect so much, right away.

The sub-areas are indeed a mess. I don't know how they're being used, but the sheer number of foreign words here will also end up making it difficult for the player to navigate.

Since I'm about to tweak many of the map names, too, it seems like the suggestions are going to turn into a very, very long list...

[Xenobius2501]

@imcgames :

What I listed above are just samples I picked at random, there's more, unfortunately. If you're going to correct the lines with mismatched case, I'm willing to try and go over the existing translations, see what I can find, double check with a dictionary, even and come up with fixes/alternatives, starting with location names - but as I mentioned, that will be likely done during the weekend, since it's going take more time than I can spare during weekdays.

Also, as I said, getting some of them right would require a visual reference, screenshots, ideally, because cases like 카베티 Kabeti - "to hang" may refer to a hanging branch that can be seen in that particular location, a hanged man, or pretty much anything "hanging", and translating without any reference is (from my experience) not the best idea.

[imcgames]

Oh, what I meant by 'from the above' was 'from the samples you picked above.'

[Xenobius2501]

From the samples above, I suggest updating the following for now:

크바일라스 숲 Kvailas Forest - to Kvailio Forest (singular, Fool's Forest) or Kvailiu Forest (plural, Fools' Forest/Forest of Fools) - your choice.

베야 골짜기 Veja Ravine - to Vejos Ravine (Ravine of Lawns, not that it makes too much sense ^_^)

비에타 계곡 Vieta gorge - As I mentioned, "vieta" means simply "place", I don't really understand what's the idea behind this name (Gorge of Places?), but purely from grammatical standpoint, Vietos Gorge is slightly better.

셉티니 골 Septyni Glen - to Septyntas Glen (meaning - 7th Glen) or Septyniu Glen (meaning - Glen of the Seven)

파우피스 나루(터) Paupys Port - to Paupio Port.

포슬린키스 숲 Poslinkis Forest - to Poslinkio Forest or, alternatively - Paslinkes Forest (I believe this form is called past participle, it would mean "Slipped" or "Shifted" Forest).

사크니스 벌판 Saknis Plains - again, depending on what was intended, to either "Saknies Plains" (singular, Root Plains) or Sakniu Plains (plural, Plains of Roots).

시르드겔라 숲 Sirdgela Forest - to Sirdgelos Forest

드바시아 고개 Dvasia Peak - to Dvasiu Peak (plural, Peak of Souls) or Dvasios Peak (singular, Soul Peak/Soul's Peak).

람스티스 협곡 Ramstis Ridge - to Ramscio Ridge (singular, Pillar Ridge) or Ramsciu Ridge (plural, Ridge of Pillars)

아크멘스 능선 Akmens Ridge - can be kept as is if singular form (Rock Ridge) was intended. Plural is Akmenu Ridge (Ridge of Rocks/Stones)

틸타스 협곡 Tiltas Valley - to Tilto Valley if there's a single bridge, or Tiltu Valley for multiple ones.

루카스 고원 Rukas Plateau - Ruko Plateau. Plural form of "mist" in possessive case (Ruku) is rarely used even in Lithuania.

에산치우 마을 Escanciu Village - case itself is correct, but as I mentioned, if originally it was meant to be "Seekers' Village" or "Village of Seekers" it's a very poor phonetic match and you might want to pick up something closer to how the word actually sounds (Yesh-kan-choo would be an approximate phonetic match with "ieškančių" being a proper Lithuanian word).

As for sub-areas.... Well, that will have to wait, currently the state of names there is too random to even begin guessing what was the intended meaning.

[ttgmichael]

@Xenobius2501 , you are amazing! ^^

@ensata, are you planning to update the Quest.tsv with these corrections? I can help update ETC. :)

[ensata]

I've compiled your notes for my personal future reference here: https://github.com/ensata/ToS-en-fork/blob/notes/mapnames.tsv - it's not official, mind you.

As long as there's a list for easy access somewhere - whether it's imc's wiki or my personal file - once this list is filled up it'll be a relatively simple ctrl-f and mass replacement. Doesn't matter who does it, then.

[imcgames]

We'll have the wiki updated with it later on :wink:

[ensata]

So, after looking over a few more map names, I figured that I should point out that - in order to get really good map names - this is going to start crossing into the territory of localisation and creative liberty, soon.

Map names are one of those things where you usually just invent new words by conjoining what's available, and it can appear quite different from the original Korean. For example, I modified "Silver Stream Gorge" into "Silverstream Gorge" this morning, which is technically my own invention.

The reason I'm mentioning this though, is because I just came up with a map name that's a little bit more extreme, which ties into the Lithuanian. After looking at the map name "Three Brooks Wood", I came up with the idea of renaming it into "Trejbrook Wood". It's a conjunction of the word "trejetas", which I think means "triplet", and brook. What do you think?

Since this is a English stylistic choice, it's one of those things that will never appear in the Korean version. There are a couple other ways to do map names, though.

[Xenobius2501]

@ensata Somehow I don't think adding Lihuanian words as parts of conjunctions is a very good idea - you risk coming up with stuff that is way too cryptic. That said, it's up to IMC to decide.

On a side note, "three brooks" happens to be a part of a small Lithuanian village's coat of arms (https://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us%C4%97nai) - most likely a coincidence, but funny nonetheless.

[ensata]

Well, it was just an idea. That's just the way new words are invented, and it's been done throughout history. It always becomes weird and cryptic, eventually. (Also, this is where I point at your own name, Mr. Greek-Latin conjunction.)

No matter the technique, though, the goal is always the same: It's trying to condense a fully correct description of something into only one or two words.

There also needs to be consideration for things like easy pronunciation and spelling, remembering it, copyright... Well, that's how a name in the real world, works. Since this is fictional, you can also aim to make it really exotic and cool, but you've seen the results of that yourself: it's all weird incorrect words thrown in. It's a tricky balancing act for something most people probably won't care about.

Anyway, I'm still not really sure where those Sub-Area words will show up in-game, but it's ridiculously confusing as it is right now. I have no idea what to do with them, even if I know what it means.

[Xenobius2501]

Maybe @imcgames could help us with that, at least point at where these sub-area lines belong. I hope they didn't seriously name parts of locations "desn't work" >_<

[Xenobius2501]

Right, area names.

루클리스 거리 Ruklys Street - In Lithuanian, as long as places named after people (Ruklys was a prince of sorts) are concerned, possessive case is used - which would imply "Ruklio Street".

카롤리스 샘터 Karolis Fountain - to Karolio Fountain

압시메스티 교차로 Apsimesti Crossroad - somewhat tricky. Apsimesti, as I mentioned above literally means "To Pretend". We could go with "Crossroad of Pretending", but it's a long word - "Apsimetinejimo Crossroad" to be exact. Alternatively, we could use "Apsimetes Crossroad" which can loosely be translated as "Pretending Crossroad".

빌나 숲 Vilna Forest - need more info from @imcgames or people who have seen the place in game here. Literally, "vilna" means "wool" (Vilnos Forest then). But if we add one more vowel, "Vilnia" is an old name of a river near Vilnius, which would make it "Vilnios Forest" - we'll need to choose one depending on what was intended.

베르크티 광장 Verkti Square - lit. "To Cry Square". If Crying Square was intended, it needs to be "Verkiantis Square", or, in case of "Square of Cries" - "Verksmo Square" for a singular cry or "Verksmu Square" for plural.

스벤티마스 유형지 Sventimas Exile - doesn't make much sense. lit. - "Devotion Exile". If devotion was indeed intended, needs to be changed to "Sventimo Exile", but (speculation here) if it was something like "Saint's Exile" (which at least makes some sense) we'd have to change it to "Sventojo Exile"

:edit: If "Devotee's Exile" was intended, "Atsidavelio Exile" is the closest match I can think of.

칼레이마스 접견소 Kalejimas Visiting Room - "Kalejimas" means "Prison", so it's probably "Kalejimo Visiting Room".

그리나스 숲길 Grynas Trails 그리나스 수련장 Grynas Training Camp 그리나스 구릉지 Grynas Hills - these three need some more clarification as well. "Grynas" (adj.) means "Pure", but it is mostly encountered in phrases like "Pure " and the like. It is also sometimes used as a slang for "cash". If a more spiritual meaning (like pure soul, or pure intentions) was intended, proper word would be "Tyras".

There is also a slight problem with plural form. In Lithuanian, adjectives have different forms for singular and plural - for example, while in English there's no change between say, Red Book or Red Books - only the noun is affected - in Lithuanian it's Raudona Knyga for singular and Raudonos Knygos for plural. Similarly, in the above case Hills and Trails are plural and would imply corresponding adjective forms, namely - "Griny" or "Tyrus".

So far that's all I found in this list (https://github.com/Treeofsavior/EnglishTranslation/wiki/2.2.%20Map) as far as "Map" entry goes.

As for sub-areas, we really need hints as to where exactly are those lines used. I could translate the Lithuanian words there, but trust me, they make even less sense that way - there's a rather random mix of nouns, adjectives and verbs with no indication of what's the intended use.

[imcgames]

Well there seems to be a lot of these corrections to be made. However, since the names are also closely related to development of the game, I think we better wait til after the CBT to make most of the changes.

Also, we'd like to keep the original names as much as possible so that the names in English version won't be so drastically different from the original Korean ver. So for the time being, let's stick to changing ones that really need to be changed rather than coming up with original names. :wink:

[Xenobius2501]

I'll try to provide descriptions/explanation for suggested changes (as I did with most lines in my previous post), so it's up to you to decide how much needs to be changed and when. :)

[Xenobius2501]

Ok, combing through the rest of lines from this topic (https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/how-we-can-provide-ourselves-with-a-better-translated-tos/9025)

Equipment:

플로나스 사브르 Flonas Sabre - Unless "flonas" is some kind of named NPC in ToS lore this could very well be a sligh phonetical mismatch for "Plonas" (Lithuanian for "thin"), seeing how there's also a "Bendras" sword.

미스카스 사브르 Miskas Sabre - to Misko Sabre (same as usual, case mismatch, Misko Sabre would make it into a Sabre of the Forest).

벨니웁 Velniup - to Velniop maybe? It might be a false positive on my part, but "Velniop" is a mild curse/swear word in Lithuanian, roughly equivalent to "To hell ". Needs checking/reference confirmation.

템서스 플랑베르쥬 Temsus Flamberge - to Tamsus Flamberge, "Tamsus" means "Dark".

디델 콜로서스 Didel Colossus - to Didelis Colossus - because Didel is most likely "Didelis" (which means "Big") with two letters missing. That is, of course, if it wasn't supposed to be a "Great Colossus" - then, instead of "didelis", "didysis" needs to used.

바시아 로드 Vasia Rod - to Dvasios Rod. Judging by desription in the databese it's a "Spirit Rod", which means they lost a letter somewhere and dvasia turned into vasia.

그리나스 로드 Grinas Rod - to Tyras Rod. I mentioned the difference between Grynas and Tyras above, both being "pure" with somewhat different flavor.

이스발리티 Isbality - to Isvarytojas. In the database, it's a famous demon hunter's crossbow. I guess they translated the word "banish" via google and chose the "išvaryti" variant, but as it stands, we have a weapon called "To banish". Isvarytojas would change it to something close to "Banisher", a more fitting name for a weapon, IMO.

스티루스 해머 Stirus Hammer - to Stiprus Hammer. Most likely a typo, since "stiprus" means "strong".

발타스 모닝스타 Valtas Morningstar - possibly to "Baltas Morningstar", since "baltas" means "white".

선쿠스 마울 Suncus Maul - to Sunkus Maul. "sunkus" means "heavy".

아다타그 Adatag - to Adata. "adata" means "needle", there's no "d" in that word.

메디나 파이크 Medina Pike - to Medinis Pike (Wooden Pike).

디델 샤먼 완드 Didel Shaman Wand - probable the same as with Didel Colossus. Didelis Shaman Wand for "big", Didysis Shaman Wand for "great".

멜리나스 스태프 Melinas Staff - to Melynas staff. Minor typo, "melynas" means "blue".

클라이다 건틀릿 Klaida Gauntlets/Greaves/Skirt/Mail - literally, "klaida" means "Mistake" or "Error". Unless there's some hidden in-game joke I didn't get, the wording is wrong. Need to confirm the intended meaning for these item names. If for some reason mistake/error was intended, simply change it to "Klaidos Gauntlets/Greaves/Skirt/Mail"

프로타스 부츠 Protas Boots - to Proto Boots, case mismatch ("Proto Boots" would mean "boots of the mind"). In case of "Intelligent Boots" that would be "Protingas Boots".

There's another point I'm not too sure of. There are items with a "Thresh" prefix, but since there is also a "Sestas" prefix for similar items, there is a possibility that it needs to be changed to "Trecias", because "sestas" means "sixth" and "trecias" means "third", not that it makes too much sense.

Need confirmation from @imcgames on what was the intended meaning of these prefixes. If ToS indeed has number-related item prefixes, "Aston", "Devi" and "Prima" item series might be in need of fixing - to "Astuntas" (means "eighth"), "Devyntas" (ninth) and Pirmas (first), respectively.

Also, the matter of Zalia/Jalia items I mentioned in the first post. I searched the database and found out that Zalia/Jalia Kite Shield is indeed, green, but Armor, Boots, Gloves and Pants are.... Red. If you wanted to name them "Green Armor/Boots/Gloves/Pants/Kite Shield, it needs to be changed to "Zalias" in all these cases. If not, there's still the inconsistency between Zalia/Jalia.

[ensata]

Some of those appear to be caused by flaws in the Korean Language. I've been running into the same trouble when I tried to find names for NPCs. Just for you, here are some of the merged consonants, relative to how English works:

• L and R can't be distinguished. Most people know this one as a stereotype.
• P and F
• J and Z
• K and G if it's in the middle of a word
• V and B
• W does not exist, and needs to be written as OA or OE or something.

Also, you can quickly get the romanisation by punching it into Google Translate. 플로나스 사브르 shows up as peullonaseu sabeuleu, so you can now see why someone might've translated it to 'Flonas Sabre'.

[Xenobius2501]

Got a question here - what's the best course of action for the nearest future? I imagine wiki here (https://github.com/Treeofsavior/EnglishTranslation/wiki) is still rather incomplete as I'm pretty sure there is much more text with Lithuanian words in game. Any particular part that's going to get some attention in the time soon, or perhaps someone is working on another chunk of lines and could use some help?

Don't exactly fancy leaving things halfway. Personally, thinking towards doing something about sub-areas, but I need some clarification as to how/where those lines appear in-game first. Any clues?

[ttgmichael]

It seems IMC wants to keep the names as close to the Korean names for this CBT and change them afterwards.

So far, I think we all need to see what things look like in-game. Are you partaking in CBT? It'd be helpful if you could see what things are like for yourself.

[Xenobius2501]

Yes, I was lucky enough to get a key, too bad my free time during weekdays is very limited and I'm completely unable to play from work (at least I can access Github and forums...). Will definitely run around looking at everything and taking screenshots - I'll likely have a couple hours in the evening and more during the weekend.

[Xenobius2501]

Noticed one thing yesterday. Apparently, sub-areas from this list - https://github.com/Treeofsavior/EnglishTranslation/wiki/2.2.%20Map are used in game as parts of multi-word names, not by themselves. For example, there's an entry 불볘스 Bulvjes, and there's a sub-area early in game (somewhere in West Siauliai Woods, I believe) that is called "Bulvjes Farm". This is, as usual wrong from Lithuanian grammar's perspective - there's a Lithuanian word "Bulve", which means "Potato", plural nominative being "Bulves". At the same time, if you wanted to say "Potato Farm" (as in the place where you grow potatoes), you'd need to go for "Bulviu Farm".

That said, sub-area list is definitely fixable, but as it stands now, doing so properly would require either of the two:

1) Get a screenshot of every single map with sub-area labels visible, so that I could understand the intended phrasing.

2) Kindly ask @imcgames to provide a wiki/tsv update so that sub-area names would appear in complete form.

The former would of course take significantly more time and effort than the latter, but ultimately, both solutions are feasible.

[ttgmichael]

Ok, since the CBT ended, I guess we'll still need to wait for IMC to be off hiatus (making PRs now will be just piling the already long list of PRs), but just bumping this so people don't forget about it. xD

Also, I hope people have made screenshots of the maps in game, perhaps fan sites might update the wikis in the coming days.

[ensata]

I didn't get a screenshot of every single one (I took hundreds, but not 100%, since I kept dying) but I'm quite sure that all of the map-sub-area names follow a regular formula. I always saw the same thing: The first word is some Lithuanian word, and the second word is an English noun, like "Farm" or something.

The usage is pretty excessive, too. It's a bit of a pain to navigate and remember everything.

[Xenobius2501]

@ensata - I was only able to reach level 32 with my highest character, but yes, it seems it's safe to assume that I can simply go over the sub-area names, correct the Lithuanian cases/spelling and hope that there are few enough exceptions to make further adjustments more or less painless. Will get to that as soon as my schedule clears up a bit.

[Sunaries]

@Xenobius2501

Sviecia or Sviesa?

[Xenobius2501]

@Sunaries depends on context and what you wanted to say. The former (Šviečia) is a verb, [it/he/she] shines The latter (Šviesa) is a noun, nominative case, light

If you're referring to 스비에샤 and 스비에사 in the sub-area section it would be best to find what is the second word in those particular sub-area names and choose accordingly, since we don't know which of the two fits better. But we could also just choose randomly and fix it later. ^_^

For example, let's make a random guess and say one of the sub-areas in question is a [forest] and the other is a [lake]. If we wanted to say "Forest of Light" and "Shining Lake" (in ToS-specific "Lithuanian + English way) we would choose "Šviesos Forest" and "Šviečiantis Lake" or vice versa ("Šviesos Lake" and "Šviečiantis Forest") for "Lake of Light" and "Shining Forest".

It is also worth noting that the above works for singular only. If "Forest/Lake of Lights" was intended, it becomes "Šviesų Forest/Lake" and (although unlikely) if the word in question for "Shining" is attached to something definitely plural ("lakes", "forests", "trails", "hills" and the like) the partciple changes slightly - to "Šviečiantys" instead of "Šviečiantis", to be exact.

[Xenobius2501]

Okay, here's my first take on the first bunch of sub-area names. Still a work in progress, hopefully we'll be able to come up a full list before second international beta.

Lines marked as "not Lithuanian" are most likely that, although there is a slight chance they just got corrupted beyond all recognition in the process of transliteration from Korean. I could salvage them, provided @imcgames could tell us what was the intended meaning.

Sub-area Names

앱소바 Aebsova - not Lithuanian

히스 Hyth - not Lithuanian

살라비자 Salavija (Šalavijas, lit. sage plant) - Salavijaus (singular) or Salaviju (plural).

이쉬블리쉬 Ishiblysh (išblyškęs, lit. pale) - Isblyskes (masculine) or Isblyskusi (feminine)

네바싱가스 Nevasingas (lit. Barren, Fruitless) - current form is masculine, feminine is Nevaisinga.

카베티 Kabeti (Kabėti, lit. to hang) - most likely intended as "hanging", so Kabantis (masc.) or Kabanti (fem.)

자코레 Zakole - not Lithuanian

파수크티 Pasukti - (lit. to turn) - most likely Pasuktas (masc.) or Pasukta (fem.)

노레티 Noreti - (lit. to want/to wish) - Noro (singular) or Noru (plural)

루디주 Rudiziu (rūdžių - lit. of blights/of corrosions - plural). Singular form - Rudies.

비나스 Vinas (Vynas - lit. wine (beverage)). Vyno (singular) or Vynų (plural).

오쉬마스 Oshimas (Ošimas - lit. rustle) - Osimo (simgular) or Osimu (plural)

츠리즈 Chliz - not Lithuanian

브랑긴티 Branginti (verb. lit. to cherish/to hold dear). For "Cherished", it's Brangus (masc.) or Brangi (fem.)

파마이쉬 Pamaish (either Pamaišė lit. stirred (past simple) or Pamišo (lit. went crazy/nuts)). A choice between Pamaisytas (masc.)/Pamaisyta (fem.) or Pamises (masc.)/Pamisusi (fem.).

사우사스 Sausas (lit. dry). Current form is (masc.), (fem.) would be Sausa.

이리에노스 Erienos (lit. of the mutton/of the lamb). Current form is singular, and most likely correct.

마로네 Malone (Malonė - lit. mercy/grace/pardon) - Malones.

세스티네 Sestine - not sure here. Šeštinės is a Lithuanian name for Feast of the Ascension (see wikipedia). If this was indeed intended as some ference to "Ascension" - then Sestines is the correct form.

니에카스 Niekas (lit. No one, nothing.) - to Nieko. If a more profound wording (Nothingness) was intended, correct form would be "Nebuties".

위드로카 Wedroka - not Lithuanian

미르쉬타 Mirshta (lit. [it/he/she] is dying (present continuous)). Correct form (partciple as an adjective) - Mirštantis (masc.) or Mirštanti (fem.)

메일레 Meile (lit. Love, nominative case). Correct form - Meiles.

파말두 Pamaldu (lit. of the vesper) Most likely correct.

아르카 Arka (lit. arch, as in archway). Arkos (singular) or Arku (plural).

베이니카 Veinika - most likely Vainiku (plural). (Vainikas - lit. Wreath). Singular form would be Vainiko.

우올리에 Uolie - Closest match I could think of is "Uoloje" (in/on a rock). If we can confirm with a screenshot that the area in question has some rocks/cliffs, we could use Uolos (singular) or Uolu (plural).

리우데지 Liudesy (lit. in sorrow). Change to Liudesio (singular, of sorrow) or Liudesiu (of sorrows). P.S. Any chance this is a swamp? :)

올리비나스 Olivinas - to Olivino.

파사두 Fasadu - current form is correct for plural (of the Façades). Singular would be Fasado... That is, if there are any building that could potentially have a facade in the first place on that map.

라욱티 Laukti (lit. to wait, inf. form). Change to Laukimo (of waiting) or Laukaints (masc.) Laukianti (fem.) for [something that is waiting].

아테지마 Atejima (Atėjimo lit. of arriving/of coming). Almost correct, change to Atejimo.

파사라 Pasara (Pašaro lit. of the fodder). Change to Pasaro.

티킨티에 Tikintie A bit confused here. The word stem indicates it has to do with "belief" (tikintieji - lit. believers). But there's a question of was it intended as "believers of true faith" or "pagan/heretic believers". If it's the former, "tikinčio" (singular) or "tikinčių" (plural) is correct. For pagan/heretic version, the word "pagonio" (singular) or "pagoniu" is a better fit.

이쉬가키 Ishgaki not Lithuanian.

그리나 Gryna current form is correct for (fem.). (masc.) would be Grynas. But since this word also came up earlier, I still recommend changing it to Tyras (masc.) or Tyra (fem.) - both mean "pure" but the "grynas" is mostly used when describing chemical substances, while "tyras" has a more spiritual meaning.

퓨리네 Purine - Need more info, can only guess what it was originally. Pajurinė is a relative match since Google translate "listen" button produced something "Pjurine".

템디티 Temdyti (lit. to black out, inf.). Change to Temdymo.

미르지나 Mirzina most likely (Milžinas - lit. Giant (noun)). Change to Milzino (singular) or Milzinu (plural).

랑키나 Rankina either (Rankena, lit. a handle) or (Rankinė, lit. purse/handbag) . Doesn't sound right, clarification needed, but if there is some sort of "handle" on that map - change to "Rankenos", for "purse" - to "Rankines".

슬랍투 Slaptu (lit. of the hidden). Change to Slaptas (masc.) or Slapta (fem.) - (simply hidden)

파슬례 Paslje - not Lithuanian

수자디니 Suzadini - most likely Sužadinti(lit. to excite, to awaken, to). Change to Suzadintas (masc.) or Sužadinta (fem.)

피에바 Pieva (lit. field, meadow). Change to Pievos (singular) or Pievu (plural).

세비니 Sevyni likely Siuviny (lit. in the needlework/embroidery, locative case). To Siuvinio (singular) or Siuviniu (plural).

스바이굴 Svaigul - (Svaigulys, lit. vertigo) - to Svaigulio (singular) or Svaiguliu (plural).

압스바이기 Apsvaigy (Apsvaigę - lit. drunk, high, dizzy - pluras). Singular form is Apsvaiges.

P.S.: While I noticed @ttgmichael invited me to the actual project and it seems I have "push rights" for English Translation now (whatever that means >_<) I still haven't figured out how to use it properly, so I posted the first batch here. I'll try to figure it out during the weekend.

Also, as you can see, currently I can not narrow down the gender-specific words and choice between singular/plural is also left to guesswork, since I am trying to match how a fully translated two-word sub-area name would be spelled in proper Lithuanian and that can only be finalized when we have full sub-area names - which requires either screenshots or @imcgames input.

[ttgmichael]

For now, we are just looking for people to work on updating the wiki. I got a clone of the official rep's wiki on my repository.

Now, it's possible for us to go through the map names and change their to what they should be to follow Lithuanian grammar. All you need to do to change the wiki is change the English terms when you press edit ;) https://github.com/ttgmichael/EnglishTranslation/wiki/2.2.%20Map

[Xenobius2501]

Nice. Then the next thing I'll do is probably edit every entry in map names (not sub-areas) and get back to working on the list I started in the previous comment. Hopefully by the time it's done there will be some progress on getting the missing parts of sub-area names.

[Xenobius2501]

Updated the wiki in @ttgmichael 's repository with names I mentioned above.

Since randomly changing stuff w/o explaining isnt' really my thing, I'll continue to provide explanations on changes in form of comments in this issue first.

스마크라 Smakra - to Smakro (lit. chin)

아메스티 Amesti - not an exact mathc, but "Atmesti" means "to discard", proper case would be Atmestas (masc.) or Atmesta (fem.)

파스투마 Pastuma - most likely "Pastumia" (lit. [they] push) - to Pastumtas (pushed).

유졔츠 Uzjetsu - most likely "Uzjaustų" (a conditional perfect form of "Uzjausti" - to sympathize, to pity). As a noun, it's a bit longer (Uzuojauta), and to be used as an area it has to be changed to "Uzuojautos".

게로베 Gerove - (Gerovė - lit. well-being). Change to Geroves.

팔듀오 Parduo - not Lithuanian (there's a word "Parduotuve" (shop), but it's clearly too much of a stretch)

페르겔레 Pergele - to Pergales (Pergalė means "victory").

드라사 Drasa - to Drasos (courage)

즈모네 Zmone - to Zmonijos (likely Žmonija - humanity. Could also be Žmona (wife) but it's less likely).

:edit: it seems some revision overlapping occured, need to update after the latest subarea name changes.

[ttgmichael]

While you were changing names from the main areas. I added the full names for most of the sub areas. Will add more tomorrow! ;)

It'd be nice if you can add notes to the names you changed, so when we pass it to IMC, they know why it's changed. ^^

[Xenobius2501]

Oh, THAT will take time. Sure thing though, I have most of the notes in this issue so it's a matter of carefully copying them to wiki,

[Xenobius2501]

Updated the entire Map page on wiki. Let me know if more details on why some words had to be changed are necessary (kept them to a bare minimum to keep it readable).

[ttgmichael]

Haha, looks like we are making real progress on this :+1: . Having the real meaning would be nice, but I'll leave that to you to add. xD

I added a few more lines, I think that's all the ones I can find so far. These ones were missing from IMC's wiki and thus I can't be completely sure whether the Korean romanization are actual correct Lithuanian words or not. If there are any ones that sound weird, write a note so I can take a look.

[Xenobius2501]

At this point it's painfully clear that awkward, misspelled names suffering from mismatched case/number/etc in Lithuanian are there for a very simple reason - IMC used too much Google Translate. They probably wrote everything in Korean first, then google-translated everything to Lithuanian, made a rough phonetic transcription back into Korean and stuffed the result into client files - after that, to salt the wound, we had to romanize the Korean->Lithuanian->Korean text again.

Since both Korean and Lithuanian languages are ripe with peculiarities when it comes to phonetics and no proofreading by a native Lithuanian speaker was done after the initial Korean-Lithuanian translation, it had a truly disastrous effect - to the point that I had to use google to "listen" to Korean pronunciation to even try to guess what was the original Lithuanian word in many cases.

That said, the result is still a bit rough - partially thanks to the fact that English has no "proper" alternatives for some Lithuanian vowels and consonants. Ą, č, ę, ė į š,ų,ū,ž can be replaced by a, ch, ia, ie, ee, sh, oo, zh and the like, but doing so would result in horribly bloated, tongue twister abominations, so to avoid over-complicating stuff (and to keep it consistent with few existing cases where Lithuanian words survived the process relatively in one piece) I chose to stick to a simplified scheme that at the very least, leaves the words easily understandable to anyone familiar with the language - or, to put it simply, how you would write them on a keyboard with no Lithuanian language support.

As for meanings - for the most part, I mentioned them in this issue, and I think the best course of action would be to draw them all into a single post at some point, instead of burdening the wiki with lengthy explanations.

[Xenobius2501]

Fixed some more lines in the newest translation, up to 바이덴티스 신당 Bidentis Shrine. While most were simple and rather minor spelling mistakes, this one is a handful. I listened to how the Korean word is pronounced (thanks, Google translate!) and it's apparently a Lithuanian word "Vaidentis". (to haunt). Problem is, there's no elegant way to say "haunted" in Lithuanian. This is because "Vaidentis" has a subtly different meaning - in English, a ghost can "haunt" a place or a person. In Lithuanian, "Vaidentis" is directed at the one being haunted, i.e. it's not so much "haunting" as "seeing ghosts". So a Lithuanian phrase "Namas, kuriame vaidenasi", while correctly translated as "Haunted house" literally means "House where you can see ghosts".

That said, there are two solutions that will NOT lead to turning "Bidentis" into three separate words.

1) Change to Vaidenantis Shrine. That would not be very accurate since it's a past perfect tense "Have been haunting" 2) Change to Vaiduokliu Shrine. This changes the meaning to "Shrine of Ghosts".

For now, wiki is updated with the latter, unless someone strongly disagrees.

[Soukyuu]

I'd want to avoid the meaning change, personally. I don't quite understand why it's possible to have a past tense version, but not present tense version. It seems counter-intuitive that the past tense version is one word while the present tense one is a phrase. Or did I get it wrong?

[Xenobius2501]

To elaborate on the issue, "Vaidentis" is derived from the word "Vaizdas", or "sight". Basically, it's "Seeing things", not limited to ghosts, but something that does not exist. Thing is, Lithuanian language does not have a word that can convey the meaning of "haunted" alone.

If for example, you need a phrase similar to "haunted house", you can come up with either "namas, kuriame vaidenasi" (as mentioned above, "house where ghosts/things that don't exist can be seen"), vaiduoklių namas; (lit. house of ghosts) or prakeiktas namas (lit. cursed house) - but all of those are close matches, not direct ones.

Now, as for "Vaidenantis". The biggest problem is not the tense, it's the "is" part (pun not intended). Used like this, "is" suffix signifies reflexive form. For example, "Rodyti" means "to show", "to point". But "Rodytis" means "to appear, to show oneself". Therefore, even if we get to keep some loose resemblance to the word IMC picked, we still end up with uhm, "self-haunting shrine"? "Shrine in the process of haunting itself?"

TL:DR; in this case, so far, the most difficult one I've stumbled upon I am strongly inclined to preserve the general meaning (which "Shrine of Ghosts, or "Vaiduoklių Shrine" conveys), not the original choice the words which is problematic to put it mildly.

[eincentas]

Will all Lithuanian names be written without the "special" letters like "š, č, į, ą, ū" etc.? I can understand why they would write like that, but it's really unpleasant to see letters written that way.

[Xenobius2501]

They will, unless IMCgames decides to go for "100% correct" Lithuanian. Personally, I don't think that's a good idea. First, this is an English translation we're talking about. And Ą, č, ę, ė į š,ų,ū,ž don't exist in English. Though admittedly, introducing these special symbols into the game would be the lesser evil, because...

Second choice would be replacing current "simplified Lithuanian" with phonetically correct version. West She-ow-lee-aye (try to pronounce it VERY quickly) Woods instead of Siauliai Woods or perhaps, Nya-way-sing-us Highway instead of Nevaisingas anyone? Because you can't replace just the special symbols and leave every vowel that is pronounced differently in Lithuanian when compared to English.

[Soukyuu]

I am strongly inclined to preserve the general meaning (which "Shrine of Ghosts, or "Vaiduoklių Shrine" conveys), not the original choice the words which is problematic to put it mildly.

Thing is, that changes the general meaning in my eyes from "a shrine that has ghosts" to "a shrine for ghosts". Because a "Shrine of Ghosts" is a shrine that was made to worship ghosts, kind of like there is a "Shrine of the Fox God" (Inari-jinja) in Japanese, just to make an example.

I believe that from the examples you stated the closest to the meaning IMCGames has picked would be "Prakeiktas Shrine", aka "a cursed (=ghosts appear) shrine". Am I making any sense?

[Xenobius2501]

Thing is, that changes the general meaning in my eyes from "a shrine that has ghosts" to "a shrine for ghosts". Because a "Shrine of Ghosts" is a shrine that was made to worship ghosts, kind of like there is a "Shrine of the Fox God" (Inari-jinja) in Japanese, just to make an example.

Not necessarily. There have been examples when "Vaiduoklių [something]" was used as "Haunted [something]" in the past, for the lack of better alternatives in Lithuanian language. Try googling "Vaiduoklių Namas", for example. That said, I think that's about as much attention to a single line as it gets. We should wait for @imcgames input at this point and see what they think of it.

[Soukyuu]

I guess it's just an unfortunate place they picked to mix languages in. You can either make the English part work, or the Lithuanian. I wonder if it made more sense in Korean. In any case, you are right.

[Xenobius2501]

Went through items/equipment in @ttgmichael 's wiki, fixed most of Lithuanian lines, some need @imcgames input to clarify first.

[Xenobius2501]

Some minor tweaks to Skills - https://github.com/ttgmichael/EnglishTranslation/wiki/2.C.-Skills One line needs @imcgames attention - skill Carve Austras Koks is not in Lithuanian at all, "Austras Koks" is Latvian for "Tree of the East" or "Eastern Tree". Intentional or someone miss-clicked Latvian instead of Lithuanian? In case it's the latter, I suggest changing it to "Rytų medis" (or Rytu Medis, since we're not using LT-specific letters anyway).

[ensata]

As far as I could discover, "Austras Koks" was an odd localisation done by someone in IMC, and also came up in some game dialogue before I removed it: the true translation is actually "World Tree". Since there isn't a fancy name for it in the old Lithuanian myths, I guess someone mixed up the Baltic myths. This is actually related to the discussion on the name for "Day of Divine Tree", too.

[terrapin47]

What is this then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romuva_(religion)#/media/File:Romuva_logo_0.PNG Baltic, but it looks like a lot was taken from this anyways.