Cvar changes suggestions

[True-Boredom]

General Cvar changes:

ammo_shotgun_max 128 //was 72 In L4D1, the pump-shotgun's reserve ammo was 128, but it was lowered to 56 for some reason in l4d2. Since TLS, it has been 72, which still feels like an odd number to me. Would 128 ammo actually be too powerful? (The silenced uzi has 650 reserve ammo, afterall, which was increased from 480 in l4d1). Increasing the ammo capacity would give the pump-shotgun a niche over the autoshotgun, which currently outclasses it in every way.

chainsaw_attack_distance 60 //was 50 This would increase the range of the chainsaw, to increase its viability. (The range of other melee weapons is 70).

cl_glow_ghost_infected_g 1.0 //was 0.4 cl_glow_ghost_infected_r 1.0 //was 0.3 These control the "glows" of ghosted infected -- when I play versus games with noob teammates, it is impossible for them to tell the difference between a spawned infected and a ghost because the glow is the same by default. New players shouldn't have an inherent disadvantage because they didn't know to modify the game files ahead of time. (For those who don't know, it is possible to change these glows though the autoexec.cfg, file -- Valve does not consider changing glows to be a cheat.)

cl_glow_survivor_vomit_b 0.72 //was 0.0 cl_glow_survivor_vomit_g 0.07 //was 0.4 cl_glow_survivor_vomit_r 0.79 //was 1.0 Currently, a downed survivor and a biled survivor will glow the same color -- however, this makes it near impossible (and at range, completely impossible), to tell the difference if a downed teammate has been biled or not. Since the infected team has a unique glow for a biled survivor, it makes sense for survivors see their own teammates with the same unique glow.

grenadelauncher_radius_kill 250 //was 180 The grenade launcher is ineffective against common infected, stumbling most common infected in the blast radius, but only killing those closest to the center. Commons don't tend to group up enough to make the grenade launcher viable with its short blast radius -- only effective against bile-jarred zombiess, which all weapons are effective against. Increasing the "kill radius" to the same size as the "blast radius"" will make it more effective against common infected, while it barely effects special infected. (They'll take slightly more damage at the outscurts of the blast radius.) To prevent the grenade launcher from being overpowered in versus mode, add a versus mode cvar to revert grenadelauncher_radius_kill to 180.

mounted_gun_cooldown_time 20 //was 60 mounted_gun_overheat_penalty_time 20 //was 60 mounted_gun_overheat_time 20 //was 15 When the 50cal mounted gun was introduced in l4d2, it was very bad. Knowing this, when Valve ported The Sacrifice to L4D1, they buffed the 50cal so that it would be more viable. However, these changes to the 50cal are exclusive to l4d1 and for some reason never made it to l4d2.

sb_friend_immobilized_reaction_time_hard 0.5 //was 1.0 sb_friend_immobilized_reaction_time_normal 0.5 //was 2.0 You have no doubt heard complaints about L4D2's bots, and these slight changes will make them more useful (at least on lower difficulties). In Expert mode and Versus, bots have a 0.5 sec reaction time, but it is slower in Easy, Normal, and Advanced difficulties. I propose that the survivor bots should have 0.5 sec reaction time regardless of difficulty.

sv_vote_creation_timer 0 //was 180 This cvar controls how often a person can call a vote, currently a player will have to wait 180 seconds to call another vote, regardless if their previous vote failed or succeeded. I believe that this cooldown should be removed entirely from campaign mode, to benefit speedrunners and all players as a whole. This cvar is currently 30 seconds in l4d1 and all l4d1 mutations.

z_head_damage_causes_wounds 1 //was 0 This is a cosmetic cvar similar to the "z_boomer_gibs" cvar that was enabled in TLS. This cvar is currently only used in Realism mode to make headshots with pistols and uzis more exciting, but I don't see why it shouldn't be added to all gamemodes. This would also make headshots more responsive with these weapons.

Versus Mode Exclusive:

(These changes would be placed in the "gamemodes.txt" file)

boomer_vomit_delay 0.5 //was 1 Boomer-bots are one of the most usually ineffectual teammates in a versus match; they are required to stand still for a full second before they can vomit on survivors. In Advanced and Expert difficulties, the vomit delay is removed, so I suggest it should be removed for boomer-bots in versus mode too.

charger_pz_claw_dmg 8 //was 10 Charger's punch is very powerful, with many players prefering to punch survivors to death than actually charge them. Most, if not all competitive mods reduce the damage of Charger's punch to 8, which is still much higher than the other infected, but also a little more fair.

smoker_tongue_delay 0.5 //was 1.5 Smoker-bots are perhaps the most ineffectual teammates in a versus match; they are required to stand still for a full second and a half, (and yell very loudly!), before they can ensnare survivors. In Advanced and Expert difficulties, the tongue delay is removed, so I suggest it should be removed for smoker-bots versus mode too.

sv_vote_creation_timer 30 //was 180 While I believe the vote cooldown should be removed from campaign, it definitely shouldn't be removed from Versus mode. However, I also suggest lowering the cooldown because three minutes is an awfully long time to wait. (This cooldown is currently only 30 seconds in L4D1, fyi) (P.S. If this suggestion gets added, don't forget to add it to Versus Survival too)

z_door_pound_damage 120 //was 60 This change would double the damage special infected can deal to doors in versus mode. (Reducing the number of scratches to break a door from 3 to 2.) Currently, survivors can completely stuff a special infected by closing a door in their face, but this change would allow the infected to countered less by this, and it can also open up new strategies. In the current game, if a Smoker, Boomer, or Spitter scratches a door, it will break a small hole in it, hardly big enough to get a tongue/vomit/spit through it; with this suggested change, a large hole will be opened in the door, making it much more viable for infected to spawn behind doors.

z_vomit_interval 25 //was 30 Waiting an entire 30 seconds to be able to vomit again feels like an eternity in versus mode, especially if you need to despawn and join with your teammates who are already prepared to spawn. TLS reduced the infected's respawn from 30 sec to 24 sec, which can make Boomer get un-synced from his team due to the long cooldown on his boom. In the same update, Jockey had its own 30 sec cooldown reduced to 25, so I believe the Boomer deserve the same treatment.

Realism Versus Mode Exclusive:

(These changes would be placed in the "gamemodes.txt" file)

z_ghost_delay_max 30 //was 24 In TLS update, the max spawn delay for versus mode was decreased, increasing the difficulty for the survivors (a good change in my opinion) -- however, the shorter spawn delay was also added to Scavenge and Realism Versus. This change has since been reverted from Scavenge mode, as the faster spawns messed with the flow of the gamemode. For this same reason, I believe it should be reverted for Realism Versus as well.

New Cvar Suggestions

tongue_drag_damage_interval 1 This cvar has been used in competitive mods for many years; it allows the damage interval of a smoker dragging a survivor to be changed -- it would be good to have this cvar made official.

z_charger_speed 250 The Charger is the only special infected to not have it's own cvar for controlling it's movement speed. (You might remember that it used to not have a cvar for its punch damage either). Currently, the charger uses the generic "z_speed" cvar that is shared with common infected, but it would be oh so nice if the charger could get a cvar of its very own.

z_tank_speed_injured This cvar could be used to increase the movement speed of a burning tank, replicating the effect from l4d1.

z_tank_min_slowdown_speed 100 A new cvar could be used to cap the amount of slowdown that can be applied to the tank at once.

mounted_gun_damage 50 mounted_gun_distance 36.0 mounted_gun_fire_think_interval 0.05 These cvars exist in L4D1 but are missing from L4D2! (They effect the 50cal)

[Tsuey]

Note: Any readers / passers by, please don't hesitate to provide feedback on these suggestions.

They are only things Valve can change in the end (except the gamemodes.txt stuff).

[FurtadoPires]

Personally I agree with the following:

cl_glow_ghost_infected_g 1.0 //was 0.4 cl_glow_ghost_infected_r 1.0 //was 0.3 These control the "glows" of ghosted infected -- when I play versus games with noob teammates, it is impossible for them to tell the difference between a spawned infected and a ghost because the glow is the same by default. New players shouldn't have an inherent disadvantage because they didn't know to modify the game files ahead of time. L4D2 is normally very good at making things clear, visually, for players, so I don't know why this was overlooked.

cl_glow_survivor_vomit_b 0.72 //was 0.0 cl_glow_survivor_vomit_g 0.07 //was 0.4 cl_glow_survivor_vomit_r 0.79 //was 1.0 Currently, a downed survivor and a biled survivor will glow the same color -- however, this makes it near impossible (and at range, completely impossible), to tell the difference if a downed teammate has been biled or not. Since the infected team has a unique glow for a biled survivor, it makes sense for survivors see their own teammates with the same unique glow.

About sv_vote_creation_timer I agree that 3 minutes is too much, but I think 30 seconds is very little. Personally I would suggest between 45 and 60 seconds.

And about the other topics, I don't mess with mods and never use grenade laucher / chainsaw, so I won't comment.

[Mart-User]

There are a lot of cvars without description, probably adding a proper description to the missing(and mislead) ones would be welcome as well.

About the mentioned changes, I agree with visual stuff, that could help newcomers, and improving the AI bot should be OK nowadays.

About the balance changes, well as always, will have a lot of discussions about that.

Having some weapon script configs being converted into cvars would help as well. The hard-coded stuff in-game prevents new modding sometimes.

[Nesciuse]

Agree with the chainsaw buff it’s quite underused. Don’t see any issue with shotgun ammo to 80 but current feels ok. Don’t think though grenade launcher needs a buff. 250 is currently stumble radius so with 250 kill radius it would lose any effect. You have 250 kill radius currently when you use fire ammo because it applies the effect in stumble radius and would be great if that was the case for explosive ammo as well. I like that realism has this nice quirk with headshot gore so also disagree with changing that to all modes. And hate almost any nerfing so the charger damage reduce absolute no for me. Indifferent about other changes

[RiseMods]

Personally I agree with the following:

cl_glow_ghost_infected_g 1.0 //was 0.4 cl_glow_ghost_infected_r 1.0 //was 0.3 These control the "glows" of ghosted infected -- when I play versus games with noob teammates, it is impossible for them to tell the difference between a spawned infected and a ghost because the glow is the same by default. New players shouldn't have an inherent disadvantage because they didn't know to modify the game files ahead of time. L4D2 is normally very good at making things clear, visually, for players, so I don't know why this was overlooked. cl_glow_survivor_vomit_b 0.72 //was 0.0 cl_glow_survivor_vomit_g 0.07 //was 0.4 cl_glow_survivor_vomit_r 0.79 //was 1.0 Currently, a downed survivor and a biled survivor will glow the same color -- however, this makes it near impossible (and at range, completely impossible), to tell the difference if a downed teammate has been biled or not. Since the infected team has a unique glow for a biled survivor, it makes sense for survivors see their own teammates with the same unique glow.

About sv_vote_creation_timer I agree that 3 minutes is too much, but I think 30 seconds is very little. Personally I would suggest between 45 and 60 seconds.

And about the other topics, I don't mess with mods and never use grenade laucher / chainsaw, so I won't comment.

i agree with this statement right here, as for reserve ammo i dont think it should be touched as it removes strategy of conserving ammo for tank fights or horde events

[lunatixxx]

The chainsaw is already very powerfull, you can run through hordes, break tongues, one shot hunters, do enormous damage on tank... it need to be nerfed if something.

[Nesciuse]

The chainsaw is so extremely powerful that 99% players decided not to use it. Seems about right

[lunatixxx]

Players don't use it because it is situational and a regular melee weapon is more useful but it does not mean that the chainsaw is bad.

The chainsaw is so extremely powerful that 99% players decided not to use it. Seems about right

[A1mDev]

I think it would be nice to add these cvars z_pounce_damage_range_min and z_pounce_damage_range_max from this extension. In the description it is written that these cvars are already in l4d1, but they are not in l4d2. A working extension at the moment to see what and where it changes (may be needed for a report).

[ImAciidz]

With regards to sv_vote_creation_timer, as far as I can tell the cvar actually does nothing in L4D1 (at least in coop/singleplayer/map server, we always have unlimited votes, dunno if it's different in versus, and the cvar is hidden there anyway).

As a speedrunner of both L4D games I'd honestly prefer if the vote creation timer would be turned off if you are playing in a friends only lobby, similar to how it works in singleplayer post-TLS. This way speedrunners will be happy (since L4D2 versions prior to 2.0.5.0 from July 2010 all have unlimited votes regardless of singleplayer/coop/etc - given that the value has been 180 since then, and that it's no longer possible to remove bots from the game via the trick on Concert, duo speedrunners have to use both of their votes on each level just to be able to kill bots and then vote back to easy for safety - but if they wipe and have to rerun the level less than 3 minutes after voting to easy, they lose a ton of time having to wait for the bots to follow them through the level). If such a change was implemented, the value can be set to whatever is appropriate for public matches to curb vote abuse/griefing (either same as now or lower by a minute or two), rather than trying to find an awkward middle ground to satisfy both groups of people.

Additionally, something else that I'd like to see fixed (if possible, assuming it's even cvar related) is relating to a change made in the July 28th 2010 update. The update notes say "Bullets that first pass through an infected character before striking a Survivor are now ignored as friendly fire", but this change actually makes it so bullets that first pass through an infected or survivor character before striking another survivor are ignored as friendly fire (for the subsequent survivors), which means it's not possible to do collateral friendly fire damage. Judging by the patchnotes, this is unintended, and is pretty annoying for solo speedrunners when doing runs on newer patches, because it makes bot killing take substantially longer with a T1 shotgun (instead of being able to just line up collat shots like in ancient versions, you have to individually down/hurt each bot).

I realize such a change would pretty much only benefit speedrunners so it's probably unlikely to make it in (assuming the fix is even trivial/simple, which is a bold assumption on my part - I tried unhiding all cvars to look for something relating to this but didn't find anything, but I figured I'd bring it up here anyway just in case I was searching for the wrong strings). I suppose a downside to this would be that it would make it slightly easier for people to grief in a public expert lobby, but IMO at that point if someone is already shooting someone on purpose, the damage is done (no pun intended), and whether you're able to collat people or not isn't going to change that.

[TrueVoidwalker]

I believe more cvars to cover settings that are currently hardcoded would be incredibly useful to the community. As a Bethesda modder I have gotten used to having game settings (cvar equivalent) for just about everything, even stuff that modders probably shouldn't have access to, so it was pretty jarring moving over to L4D2 to make a mutation and not having the ability to change so much of the game's mechanics.

That said I do have a couple cvar changes and a bunch of new cvars I would like to see, in addition to what True-Boredom suggested:

Quick Note: I believe bot Special Infected should use the Versus cvars for claw damage *_pz_claw_dmg for consistency and simplicity, as well as the fact some mutations already do try to utilize them, such as SR69MMJC and Karma Jockey's officially implemented Flu Season.

General Cvar Changes:

adrenaline_duration 10 //was 15 Adrenaline is incredibly powerful, and almost always a better choice to take over pain pills, slight nerf but would help to bring it in.

z_charger_pound_dmg 10 //was 15 This would bring the pound damage in-line with the wall impact damage, and would allow it to scale better with difficulty. This cvar change would only be applicable if SI got the difficulty damage factors too (see New Cvars). In versus this would be reverted to 15.

New Cvar Suggestions

survivor_weapon_dmg_factor 1.0 Would be a flat multiplier to damage dealt by all primary and secondary weapons (including melee), but not grenades.

z_claw_dmg 1 Base amount of damage common infected deal per-hit. z_common_dmg_factor_easy 1.0 z_common_dmg_factor_normal 2.0 z_common_dmg_factor_hard 5.0 z_common_dmg_factor_expert 20.0 Default common infected difficulty factors are just based on how much they deal per-hit currently.

z_special_claw_dmg_factor_easy 0.5 z_special_claw_dmg_factor_normal 1.0 z_special_claw_dmg_factor_hard 1.5 z_special_claw_dmg_factor_expert 4.0 Special infected difficulty factors are averaged between the current claw attack difficulty damages. These cvars would not apply to Witches.

z_special_dominate_dmg_factor_easy 0.5 z_special_dominate_dmg_factor_normal 1.0 z_special_dominate_dmg_factor_hard 2.0 z_special_dominate_dmg_factor_expert 3.0 Again, tried to average the domination damages across the board per difficulty.

z_minigun_special_dmg_scale 0.25 Minigun damage dealt to player/playable special infected would be multiplied by this value, this would replace the i-frames special infected currently get against miniguns. z_tank_always_incaps_expert 1 Tank will always incapacitate on expert difficulty (to mimic current behavior regardless of SI difficulty factors), but could be disabled in mutations. z_witch_always_kills_expert 1 Witch will always kill on expert difficulty (unlike "z_witch_always_kills" which always kills regardless), but could be disabled in mutations.

Feedback to True Boredom's Suggestions

I think setting the reaction time for survivor bots on all difficulties to Expert level is a bit too aggressive, I do like that there is some variety in their AI the harder the game is, so making it faster but keeping that bit of buffer I think would both play better while keeping some of the original intent there. sb_friend_immobilized_reaction_time_normal 1.0 //was 2.0 sb_friend_immobilized_reaction_time_hard 0.75 //was 1.0

In response to the Grenade Launcher buff, I feel a flat buff would be too much as the GL is already a very powerful utility weapon in the right hands, and the way it's been gone about is very uninteresting. grenadelauncher_radius_kill 250 //was 180 grenadelauncher_radius_stumble 400 //was 250 grenadelauncher_damage 275 //was 400 These three changes altogether would lean into the anti-common utility of the weapon and stray away from the effectiveness against specials, while still being able to take out a Hunter or Smoker with one direct impact. While Tank damage scale would stay 3x, it would increasing the number of direct impacts needed to kill one on normal from 4 to 5.

Personally, I'm against changing z_head_damage_causes_wounds to being enabled by default, I enjoy having something unique and fun to Realism that's not in standard Co-op.

[JuggerLeft]

•In relation to the Chainsaw, i really don't think that just a slightly increase to it's range would make it valuable for the short period of time it's usable... Increasing it's duration to 50 as well would make it a more interesting option since you could hold on it for longer until you find a good replacement for it.

•Different Glows for Ghost Infected is a lifesaver, it really helps with your understanding of the situation and makes easier to notice when your teammembers are intending to attack! Would be great help for newcomers in the gamemode.

•Different Glow for vomitted survivors also really helps wuth your overall understanding that your team is in, it's oftenly used by youtubers that play more competitively since it's a really visual feedback.

•I'm all for a 50cal buff.

•Really weird that the reaction time of bots is slower on easier difficulties since they're supposed to be like... Easier? I did get in many frustrating situations with bots when playing on normal, a quicker reaction time for them on easier difficulties would not only make sense but also be a really welcome change.

•z_head_damage_causes_wounds 1 //was 0 big fan of that.

•In relation to boomer_vomit_delay 0.5 //was 1, smoker_tongue_delay 0.5 //was 1.5 i have to say that it would reduce the amount of the times that the entire SI team, if the SI bot can react quicker that means that it can help hold things up a little better until someone else joins! A bot will never be as helpful as a human player since they can't strategize or coordinate with the team, but if they had quicker reaction then they can hold things up a little bit better until someone joins, which would probably in less situations where a entire team quits.

•charger_pz_claw_dmg 8 //was 10 i can't even remember how many times i see a Charger for a punch streak and cause a insane amount of damage to the Survivors! That small nerf would be really welcome.

•z_door_pound_damage 120 //was 60 big fan of that, doirs can be too big of a hassle for the SI Team... That change would allow some more sneaky strategies which would great in some maos that are difficult for the SI to do anything.

•z_vomit_interval 25 //was 30 100% agrre with the statement.

•Realism Versus is oftenly not a fun gamemode to play because it benefits too much the SI team, so playing as a survivor can be really really tedious and frustrating... z_ghost_delay_max 30 //was 24 would probably make it more enjoyable, i think people would finally play Realism Versus a bit more.

•Nothing to say about the New Cvars, more options for customization are always welcome! I'd also suggest adding tank_always_kills to the mix in case people want to create even more challening experiences

[JuggerLeft]

z_charger_pound_dmg 10 //was 15 This would bring the pound damage in-line with the wall impact damage, and would allow it to scale better with difficulty. This cvar change would only be applicable if SI got the difficulty damage factors too (see New Cvars). In versus this would be reverted to 15.

For some reason the pound damage of the Charger doesn't scalate with difficulty so it's always 15 no matter what difficulty level is... 15 damage would still scalate correctly though since the damage when a SI grabs a Survivor scalates as x1 on Easy and Normal, x2 on Advanced and x3 on Expert! Meaning that if the damage of the Charger Pound damage did scalate with difficulty it would cause 15 on Easy and Normal, 30 on Advanced and 45 on Expert

[JuggerLeft]

z_head_damage_causes_wounds 1 //was 0 This is a cosmetic cvar similar to the "z_boomer_gibs" cvar that was enabled in TLS. This cvar is currently only used in Realism mode to make headshots with pistols and uzis more exciting, but I don't see why it shouldn't be added to all gamemodes. This would also make headshots more responsive with these weapons.

Would love to see that added to the game, it's a neat visual detail that shouldn't be exclusive to a specific gamemode

[JuggerLeft]

https://github.com/Tsuey/L4D2-Community-Update/assets/144526082/e1725cf2-9eb7-454c-a67b-2cc175379abc

Here a little video demonstrating z_door_pound_damage 120 in action! Like expected it's really benefitial to Boomers and Spitters, allowing them to surprise the survivors more easily in enclosed areas with many doors.

[JuggerLeft]

In relation to the 50cal Mounted Gun, will a buff really change anything? The weapon is bad but it's placement in most maps is awful as well, so i don't really think a buff is enough to make it valuable... It appears in 4 Campaigns and each one has it's own problems:

•Sacrifice 3: You only have acess to it during the Sacrifice Sequence and that's gonna take like 15 to 30 seconds at max.

•The Passing 3: The weapon is avaliable, but not for you... Only the Bot Louis will have acess to it and he ignores any of those things ans shoot continuosly.

•Swamp Fever 4: Is at the top floor at the rear of the plantation house, a place where it's really difficult to take any benefit from it specially against the Tanks

•The Parish: It's right before the drop-off to the helipad where you will escape right away there's literally no reason to ever touch it unless you want to help someone, but even then it's gonna be used for a little meaningless amount of time.

To make the 50cal valuable a buff is needed but it's also important to reconsider it's placement and probably add it to more maps as well! The buff alone won't be enough

[JuggerLeft]

I played a bunch of matches on local server with the z_head_damage_causes_wounds enabled using a Script to see if people thought it was a big deal and... Most of them didn't even noticed! Whenever i mentioned about the change they always thought that it was already how it worked, even my friends thought the same. So i really don't think that enabling it for all gamemodes would make Realism any less Special since the Gamemode already is really unique in tons of ways!

Head Wounds using Pistols and SMGs is just a neat detail, shouldn't really be exclusive to a specific gamemode

[alexiscoutinho]

Ironically, Realism mode is less realistic when it comes to headshot wounds (heads don't explode in reality when shot with smaller calibers). However, in a gameplay point of view, it makes sense the way it is now since it doesn't encourage headshots in campaign as they're overkill.

[JuggerLeft]

Ironically, Realism mode is less realistic when it comes to headshot wounds (heads don't explode in reality when shot with smaller calibers). However, in a gameplay point of view, it makes sense the way it is now since it doesn't encourage headshots in campaign as they're overkill.

Also the fact that Zombies are literal bullet sponges, but like you said the idea of the gamemode is to incentivise headshots, even though people will prefer to use Magnums most of the time since they will kill zombies no matter what

[JuggerLeft]

Here a video demonstrating a comparison of Range values for the Chainsaw(50, 60 and 70)

https://github.com/Tsuey/L4D2-Community-Update/assets/144526082/1ffe6739-4c21-4700-bcc2-0627bbe9ce7a

[JuggerLeft]

In relatipn to z_tank_speed_injured i think that the name should be more specific since injured can relate to a bunch of different ways to hurt the Tank. Maybe z_tank_speed_on_fire and z_tank_speed_on_fire_vs would be better, with the default value being the same as both z_tank_speed which is 210