puzumaki
commented
5 years ago Code4Lib Semiotics question: what does this icon [box with arrow pointing out upper right corner] typically mean to you if you saw it next to a link? Evan 9:28 AM That it opens in a new window (edit: or tab) (edited) estelendur 9:29 AM That it opens in a new window / that it opens a different site [3 agrees] estelendur 9:29 AM (As a user I generally hope that if I'm sent to a different site from somewhere that has a lot of site-internal links, like Wikipedia, that I get a new window/tab) jrochkind 4 hours ago does wikipedia do that, open new window/tab on external links? estelendur 4 hours ago I'm actually not sure? I'll check. (I habitually open all links in new tabs) estelendur 4 hours ago It does not. I am disappoint jrochkind 4 hours ago On desktop at least, I still am partial to “If I wanted it to open in a new window, I’d use command-click/right-click, by forcing it, you remove my option” Which I think is still UX guidance from places like Nielsen. But that may not match actual majority user expectations/wants these days. And may be especially so on mobile. jrochkind 4 hours ago that’s why I was curious if wikipedia had given in too, apparently not. :slightly_smiling_face: when wikipedia gives in, it’s time to completely throw in the towel on it haha. jrochkind 4 hours ago i think it’s definitely a losing battle, but some are still waging it. https://medium.com/the-metric/links-should-open-in-the-same-window-447da3ae59ba metageeky 4 hours ago I really dislike the accessibility argument in that article. Yes, some SRs don't alert users. The problem is that there are solutions for providing context clues. Avoidance due to accessibility concerns is horrid. metageeky 4 hours ago We can't use images ever! No more buildings with stairs. Never write anything down. Don't say a word! akorphan 4 hours ago I think it's highly contextual whether a website ought to open things in new windows. I find myself caught by surprise more oftenw hen something DOESN'T open in a new window (usually after the fact, usually after I close the tab and realize I lost my source site's page) akorphan 4 hours ago I definitely have a mental model for when new-tab or new-window "should" happen but I have trouble articulating what that mental model might be metageeky 4 hours ago Exactly. It's very complicated and design heuristics are too broad a brush to make calls on this. jrochkind 3 hours ago What do you think the right way to make a call on it is? akorphan 3 hours ago User testing? akorphan 3 hours ago if it's "app-like" you could presumably have a setting, but even then you'd want to user-test the default state hectorcorrea 3 hours ago there are also security considerations when it comes to opening links in separate windows/tabs https://gosink.in/are-you-making-website-vulnerable-target-blank-or-performance/ (edited) :scream: thatandromeda:computer: 3 hours ago I’m team @jrochkind on this one, even if it means we’re sitting in our lawn chairs waving fists at the sky :100: jrochkind 2 hours ago I would be happy to sit in lawn chairs and wave fists with a refreshing beverage with you and all others relevant sometime @thatandromeda (edited) jrochkind 2 hours ago @hectorcorrea seems like a KIND of tenuous security consideration honestly, the author says “he has read some blogs and discussions” [no citations] but “couldn’t do” reproducing vulnerability cross-origin. (edited) thatandromeda:computer: 2 hours ago :beers: :fist: :cloud: hectorcorrea 1 hour ago @jrochkind if the “Click this link to see the demo” link in the article did not convince you, then I certainly have nothing else to add. Brian Holda 9:30 AM Though I do know a librarian who was asking about what that icon meant when I felt it was self-explanatory. So a good lesson that even if we think it's fairly straightforward it is not to all. metageeky 9:32 AM This is exactly why I'm asking akorphan 9:50 AM It definitely is sometimes used for "external link" and sometimes used for "new window" and is always a bit confusing to me in that respect jblyberg 11:27 AM According to font awesome, it's an external link https://fontawesome.com/icons/external-link?style=duotone Amy D 12:46 PM Was out at meetings but ready to weigh in on the external vs. new tab. I use the arrow to indicate an external site, which I think is useful because it's a different structure (useful to know for keyboard users) and there aren't promises on that website that we made on ours (privacy, accessibility, security). Regarding whether it opens in a new tab/window, I've differentiated that based on whether the website behaves like an app. Gmail, for instance, is a website-as-app. I expect those to open in a different tab automatically. I do not like having links open in new tabs by default because it takes control away from the user. Literally, it cannot be undone without some copy link to paste in address bar fun. Amy D 35 minutes ago And of course, seeing this in the accessibility slack as well brings to question everything. akorphan 35 minutes ago I'm not sure if I agree with "cannot be undone", though I guess I have a different interpretation of what it means to "undo" than you are going for akorphan 34 minutes ago i guess you mean, "user cannot override this design decision without extra labor as compared to the other design choice" Amy D 34 minutes ago How would you open a _blank link in the same tab? akorphan 33 minutes ago I mean, you're right about how I would open a _blank link in the same tab akorphan 33 minutes ago I just had a different gut interpretation of the "undo" usability test akorphan 33 minutes ago How do I "undo" opening a link in a new tab? ctrl-f4 akorphan 32 minutes ago but your point is a valid one Amy D 32 minutes ago Undo wasn't quite the right word. :wink: More like "make a different choice" and "undo" the pre-programmed setting. akorphan 32 minutes ago right akorphan 18 minutes ago I guess I see the "greatest nuisance" test slgihtly differently: when something opens in the same tab when I want it to open in a new one, it's a greater nuisance to me than the opposite akorphan 18 minutes ago most of the time metageeky 17 minutes ago and that ties into the mixed semiotics of that icon. akorphan 17 minutes ago some of it has to do with ingrained behavior patterns to be sure. Startpage drives me bananas because it opens results in a new tab and discarded startpage tabs keep proliferating in my browser akorphan 17 minutes ago This comes back in part to the ideas about "app-like" vs "web-like" behavior, I think metageeky 9 minutes ago I miss the web that was about document sharing
Some arguments on Code4Lib and Accessibility Slack for not using a symbol and explanatory text for external linking. Content in comments.