Unoffical Patcher work togheter for more Modding

[PodeCaradox]

Hello @Sh0wdown,

i working on the Gm1 Exporter/Importer for Graphic Mods: https://github.com/PodeCaradox/Gm1KonverterCrossPlatform/releases

In future i want to change Tower positions and other buildings for a hole new set of Graphic mods. But therefore we need to change things in the exe(the issue explain it). I thought about to integrate a Graphic Mods Section in the installer to change building things in the exe with a new Fileformat, so we can have one big Patcher for all and not many diffrent ones. Id like to know what you think about it, or should i make a own patcher just for Graphic things?

I get some help in the issue here from JuGGerNaunT https://github.com/Sh0wdown/UnofficialCrusaderPatch/issues/375

[GRhin]

I feel like it would be better to have a seperate installer for purely graphical mods. Im working with alot of people new to the UCP on my stream, and its confusing enough as it is, even with config files. The more options in the UCP the more confusing it is to new players.

[PodeCaradox]

Yea this was my second thought, for just graphical thinks we use a extra programm, but maybe some guys want to make full mods. The ucp will later add to change unit stats etc. so you will later need two separate programms for full mods. In future you maybe have one file load to a programm and you have the full mod with graphics,diffrent unit stats, diffrent gameplay and more? So the question is what will be the future of the ucp for easier use to install mods, i think we need a better solutions how we can achieve full mod compatibility and userfriendlyness for diffrent mods. What do you think @GRhin ?

PS: The ucp is grown so fast i think maybe it will be good to make a better UI for easier use, I can help @Sh0wdown with it, im programmed in wpf since 3-4 years now and im got use to it. Maybe i can help him with a new UI Interface and other things.

[GRhin]

As far as new users are concerned, an installer with no options is best. However that doesnt help with mod creators. I wonder if a completely new approach is a good idea: Create a program, similar to the current UCP, that mod creators can select their settings - aivs, aics, maps, graphics, unit balances, and so on - and then instead of installing, have the program generate a new .exe file that would install those settings, the new .exe file will ask for language and install location, but no more. This way, mod creators can use the UCP to create their full integrated mod, and share the result. Users then get an exe which is a simple installer. Not sure how practical that is, but its a thought.

[PodeCaradox]

@GRhin i think the ucp as a tool to create the mod file with all in it ,and a simple programm to load that file and installing the data from it, so you can have a tool to select the mod you want an simple click install and you can change between mods by simply selecting the modfile you want to install.

[J-T-de]

As far as new users are concerned, an installer with no options is best. However that doesnt help with mod creators. I wonder if a completely new approach is a good idea: Create a program, similar to the current UCP, that mod creators can select their settings - aivs, aics, maps, graphics, unit balances, and so on - and then instead of installing, have the program generate a new .exe file that would install those settings, the new .exe file will ask for language and install location, but no more. This way, mod creators can use the UCP to create their full integrated mod, and share the result. Users then get an exe which is a simple installer. Not sure how practical that is, but its a thought.

I do not really like the idea of an "integrated mod", as I would like to know which options of the UCP (and which additional stuff) are enabled and maybe I want to change some single options.

Also, many installers are very disadvantageous, so maybe a "plugin system" would be a compromise: full configs for standard users and an additional "plugin category in the UCP" for advanced users.

[GRhin]

@J-T-de , if you want to know which options are enabled, and want to change options, I put you in the category of "mod creator", and you would be using the version with all the options. "mod users" do not want to know that, and even seeing the options can make them uncomfortable (trust me, some gamers are still not IT literate). As my suggestion stands, it would create one more simple step for you to do what you are doing, but the program with all the options could have an "install" option along with the "create installer" option which means it would not negatively effect you in any way. However there are ways that not having that negatively effects users and, by extension, the community. When playing multiplayer everyone needs an identical settings, and its hard to get all that right when theres tonnes of options and some users arent advanced users - even the config file has been complicated. Further, when AI creators like Krarilotus share their creations, they usually want to recommend default UCP settings that their AIs were optimised for. Again if a user who is unfamiliar with the UCP, or even installing custom AIs have to follow a long set of instructions, or even have to fiddle around with the cfg file, they will do something wrong, and get fed up and leave (I had this very situation on stream this weekend trying out one of Krarilotus's work-in-progress AIs). This is not good for the community. Keep it simple, I have no problem allowing for a more complicated version of the installer to set individual settings, but having any kind of "system" to allow for more options in what is provided to the "mod users" is bad idea in my opinion, It creates an artificial barrier to the less tech-savvy gamers who want to play with these settings/AIs/mods.

@PodeCaradox I think that is similar to my idea, however probably easier to make, so I would be happy with that. The one issue I can see with both approaches is that you need to ensure mods can integrate, by this I mean if someone creates a graphics mod, then installing that should not overwrite settings for an AI mod, or a maps mod (i know maps are simple to install without a mod, but Im just trying to remove as many steps as possible, an installer for maps would be as good as an installer for AIVs).

[PodeCaradox]

@GRhin We can do for example diffrent filetypes which the programm can automatically differentiate, one for full mod with graphics, one only graphics, one only gamechanged things or Ai, so we can only change ai or graphiccs etc..

[Russianstory]

Good day to all. I have a question. quite reasonable. The question is more about the mod and the owner of our mini forum. But in general, at what stage is the assembly itself the mod itself, which was originally discussed here? When will it be released? It’s just that they talked so much about it, there are so many real developments and ideas already implemented there ?? But where is he?

Всем добрый день. У меня возник вопрос. вполне резонный. ВОпрос больше к хрзяину мода и хозяину нашего мини форума.А вообще в какой стадии сейчас сама сборка сам мод о котором тут шла речь изначально? Когда его выпустят? Просто, так много о нём говорили, так много там реальных разработок и реализованных уже идей?? Но где он?

[GRhin]

@Russianstory Im not sure what you are asking about (translation error?), but maybe you should ask in the thread where the things you are referring to were discussed, as your question may make more sense to people already in that discussion.

[Russianstory]

No problems. Give a link to the appropriate discussion thread.

[PodeCaradox]

@russianstory you mean our thread from. the converter from gm1? https://github.com/PodeCaradox/Gm1KonverterCrossPlatform/issues/2

[Russianstory]

no no. NOT AT ALL. I just thought that Sh0wdown is doing a big and deep global remake of the official Stronghold Krusader 1. Therefore, I asked here if there are any plans for the release of this assembly? Or did I misunderstand? There is no global mod? Are we just talking here?

нЕТ НЕТ. нЕ СОВЕсем это. Я просто думал что Sh0wdown делает большую и глубокую глобальную переделку официального Стронгхолд КРусадер 1. Поэтому и спросил тут а есть ли какие планы по релизу этой сборки? Или я неправильно понял? Никакого глобального мода нет? Мы тут просто общаемся?

[PodeCaradox]

@russianstory you missunderstood that we thought about a new graphical interface for the mod programm, one for modders and another one for user, to install mods.

[GRhin]

I think the idea discussed here has been kinda achieved by the command line interface. For my stream I provide a zip file with the patcher, cfg, aivs, aic and maps and a batch script that auto-installs it all, it just needs to be unzipped into the install folder. Simple and straightforward for the user, but still full options for the modder.

[J-T-de]

For the basic "copy n paste texture packs" this is definitly true. However for the new, more advanced texturepacks, which need editing of the .exe, either the UCP Team or @PodeCaradox needs to write a backend, which is accessible from the command line.

[GRhin]

Sorry, was referring to the idea pose and I were discussing rather than the topical sentence