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Unvanquished / gameplay

Issue tracker for Unvanquished gameplay related feedback, ideas and suggestions
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Jumping with the lucifer cannon is not as strong and fun as it was in Tremulous #7

Open slipher opened 3 years ago

slipher commented 3 years ago

This was one of my favorite things in Tremulous, but it doesn't work very well in Unvanquished. Make it stronger somehow, like with a higher jump or less damage.

DolceTriade commented 3 years ago

Probably involves reverting the GPP Luci damage changes. I think additional movement options are more fun :D

Viech commented 3 years ago

I did not know that this was nerfed but I agree that this is fun and should be viable.

ZdrytchX commented 3 years ago

In 1.1 armour damage calculations for non-locational damage such as knockback was bugged, in this case it made it so luci did way less damage than in GPP/Unv. Should be an easy specific tweak.

necessarily-equal commented 3 years ago

I don't really favor nerfing the luci self-damage. The luci is an incredibly powerful weapon that can one shot even an advanced dragoon. In fact, I think an interesting way to make it more balanced would be to give it better armor piercing. One-shooting a goon in close combat and getting 50 dmg in a battlesuit doesn't seem excessive to me.

To add on this issue, though, we can add some code to get the knockbackScale property functional again and add a scale>1to the luci. There some parsing code already https://github.com/Unvanquished/Unvanquished/blob/master/src/shared/bg_parse.cpp#L1738.

ghost commented 2 years ago

I don't like the idea of nerfing damages luci deals to humans generally. This weapon is currently able to one-shot an advanced dragoon in close range, with user receiving little to no damages. I agree with @necessarily-equal here.

Regarding the idea of making luci jumps go further, it's always said that humans must have strong bases because they have low mobility. Then there's many ideas (including the teleportation idea) to remove that difference between humans and aliens. This idea directly conflicts with idea of reduced mobility for humans compared to aliens.

DolceTriade commented 2 years ago

Personally, I think the end game classes are too weak compared to regular classes. It's annoying to buy a luci, meet like 3 dretches and then be at half health and have to go back.

ghost commented 2 years ago

I kind of agree, but I think the endclass that needs the more boost is not the luci weapon. (it's the tyrant)

Viech commented 1 year ago

So this is not a problem in the strict sense of the word but it certainly is "one aspect of the game one wants changed", (and it gives only a vague idea how to do so, even though damage and pushback are the obvious knobs). To make room for concrete proposals how to improve luci jumping, I'll retitle and retag this.

ghost commented 1 year ago

It's annoying to buy a luci, meet like 3 dretches and then be at half health and have to go back.

forgot to mention that, but, if you use luci in light or medium armor, it should be expected that 3 dretches can severely hurt you. Also, 1 vs 3 should not just "severely hurt" but kill.

Viech commented 1 year ago

We should get back to discussing whether we would like more prominent luci jumping. I think the point was now made that reducing self damage is at least controversial. But it would still be possible to boost the knockoff.

ghost commented 1 year ago

I personnally think it's a problem that the luci can one shot the most useful alien class and survive it at close range. If this also makes them pushback, then it makes it even harder for aliens to counter what is already a weapon they have hard time to counter. I'm against the idea of buffing the luci.

ZdrytchX commented 1 year ago

I'm against the idea of buffing the luci.

You don't have to buff the luci, but you can buff self-knockback and reduced self damage

ghost commented 1 year ago

reduced self damage

This is what I'd call a buff. This is the only weapon able to one-shot an advanced dragoon, and it have very little risks for it's usage. adv goon is the currently only alien weapon to remove defences of a H base (even if that takes a looong while to get all rets one by one). I'm ok to buff knockback (why should it be different between the target and the launcher after all?) but imo it should deal the same amount of damages (modified by the FF mods or not, I'm not too sure) to enemies, friends and users, considering it's already huge power. This applies for both knockback and health damages.