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Essence Shift exceeds the life essence #14126

Open xplatform-dev opened 11 months ago

xplatform-dev commented 11 months ago

Ability name

Essence Shift

Description

Slark's Essence Shift ability reads pretty similar to Silencer's Wisdom Glaive. You temporarily steal stats from the opponent and if the opponent dies with those stolen stats, they become permanent.

With Silencer, you cannot steal intelligence past the hero's base intelligence (technically this is lower than the stats you have at level 1).

Slark on the other hand can steal stats well beyond that.

Additionally, silencer has a natural counter to the wisdom glaive stolen agility with Ogre Magi who doesn't have any natural growth to intelligence.

The same can't be said for Slark - but Essence shift steals 1 of each attribute. So it's not countered by picking Tiny.

That said, Slark can exceed the stolen attributes and continue to gain stacks even after the opposing team is working with base stats.

A screenshot to show what I'm talking about.

Tiny only has 160 strength at level 30 with the talent. You'll be surprised to know that even after Tiny dying all these times, he still has 160 strength.

The impact isn't much but in games where Slark is having a feast on one or two particular heroes, there should be diminishing returns on the gained stacks just as there are for Silencer.

Dota2-Slark-Bug

Example Match ID (and possibly Timestamp)

Done in demo

anotherCoward commented 11 months ago

See the comment here

Silencer has two "steal" abilities. The one on death won't steal from Ogre, but the one on autohit does increase Silencers int with every hit.

Slark also gets 3 Agi on every hit on Medusa, Ogre and Tiny. Even tho, he could only get two without stats item (except ogre).

  • Tiny has 0 Agi and no Agi gain.
  • Same for Medusa with Strength.
  • Ogre same for Int, but also additional stats get removed.

The skills just grant the strength/int/agi always, no matter how much stats the unit has.

All these abilities just won't go beneath 0. In case of the debuff.

It is no bug. Please close your issue.

xplatform-dev commented 11 months ago

@anotherCoward That's your opinion of it not being a bug. A software bug is an error, flaw or fault in the design, development, or operation of computer software that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways. Since the description does not match the intention, it is a bug. My issue here is with the language used.

"Slark steals the life essence of enemy heroes with his attacks, draining each of their attributes and converting them to bonus Agility. If Slark kills an affected enemy hero, he permanently steals 1 Agility."

Specifically "If Slark kills an affected enemy hero, he permanently steals 1 agility."

Your point only highlights another issue with the wording and the mechanics in game.

While the auto attack does steal 1 of each stat, and you make a good point that on those specific heroes he should only be gaining 2 stats instead of 3, or if silencer and undying have managed to steal all other stats maybe 1 or possibly 0 in the rare case.

I'll even go so far as to say, Slark doesn't need to get the kill, and Silencer doesn't need to have glaives debuff on the enemy to steal even though those are clearly requirements of stealing the attributes. However, kill could just be part of the kill. So flavor works here... However with the wording for Essence Shift, it is talking about life essence and mentions the other attributes, it's why I brought a level 30 tiny and not a level 1 tiny and why silencer was also added to this to show that there is no essence left to be stolen.

anotherCoward commented 11 months ago

About that "You can't steal, whats not there", you are correct. But it's still a game not reality and therefore the rules change.

Slarks permanent steal work similar to Pudge Flesh Heap passive.

There are also other abilities that fall into this stat-stealing category like Undyings Decay or Astral Imprisonment even Mana Burn works like them. They simply modify a value on the enemy players current stats ((max) mana, (max) health, (base) stats, (additional) damage, armor/resistance, whatsoever...), either for the duration of a fight or for the whole game duration.

And you as player simply choose what you pick in the phase of the game (random or forced random by timeout) which also reduces one of your stats, your gold in this case. (if you are AFK for to long, your gold is set 0 and gifted to your teammates)

For the 3 skills mentioned earlier, only 2 of em at a time apply specific rules for each of the abilities, I also added another example for Legion Commander: