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ValveSoftware / Dota2-Gameplay

Public Bug Tracker for Dota2
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Unit Query Panel bugs #333

Closed fgarbe closed 2 years ago

fgarbe commented 2 years ago

I am aware that the unit query panel is no longer officially maintained, but I still want to try and revive that feature.

Objectively it offers you the ability to keep control / sight on your units as well as view information about a second unit and is a standard in other games such as Heroes of Newerth, Heroes of the Storm or League of Legends.

Bugs I've noticed:

  1. Cannot see allied or enemy tp scroll slot

  2. Cannot see allied or enemy neutral item slot

  3. Cannot see teammates quickbuy, this could be added in some fashion (with proper borders and separators) like this: image

  4. Cannot see Roshan's inventory. This is pretty important to know whether he'll drop Cheese or Refresher shard or Aghanim's etc.

  5. Cannot see targets benefits from main attribute, e.g. Status Resistance for Strength heroes.

  6. No channeling cast bar.

  7. Unit query window overlaps with icons for the player's & teammates' voice chat indicators.

  8. Portrait is always animated even if the setting for player portrait animation is turned off.

  9. Double clicking the portrait initiates a camera lock, that is not broken when trying to center your hero. You have to use ESC to get rid of the camera lock or wait 8 seconds.

  10. Remove the sliding transition animation when initially clicking on a unit. The sliding animation has been removed from the scoreboard but is still present for the Unit Query window.

  11. Venomancer's Plague Wards do not show any HP: image

  12. Selecting a spirit bear looks very weird: image

  13. Selecting an infested Naix looks very weird as well

  14. Tombstone is bugged aswell when selected

  15. Cannot see selected heroes Aghanim Shard/Blessing status

NMOTH commented 2 years ago

135, #471

Aluerie commented 2 years ago

I gonna add:

  1. Cannot see allied or enemy heroes' eaten Aghanim Shard/Blessing

This thread has the highest amount of upvotes among existing issues about UnitQuery panel so it's probably better to send people thumb up /comment this one in future...

Kinda sad that we are spreading upvotes like this - this could have much more upvotes if we centralized them > resulting in higher priority

and credit that these bullet points are taken from post by 2slow4flo on dev.dota2.com - even tho it seems like fgarbe is 2slow4flo 🤔

fgarbe commented 2 years ago

Added #15. My post might be missing some more information, I used to track it until like 2019 and afterwards just kind of gave up, reduced the amount of dota I play and stopped tracking new issues.

faddeefde commented 2 years ago

I gonna add too:

  1. Remove the hero's name, it's just useless
unitqueryonepercenter commented 2 years ago

17, a better name for the option rather than "unit query overrides hero control".

Honestly the name doesn't matter but I'd love to see this get the update it deserves!

bwanners commented 2 years ago

I only started using the side panel recently but think it is such a great idea and sad to see that it isn't maintained anymore. All the features you mentioned are so critical to gameplay. Hope it gets more traction. Thanks!

jeffhill commented 2 years ago

BLUF: We're not maintaining this panel and we are planning to remove it after TI this year.

Thank you for taking the time to report these bugs and thank you to everyone who upvoted the issue! This issue led to a broader discussion this morning in the Dota developers chat about what to do about this issue - but we still don't plan to support this feature long term. This panel was a neat idea we tried in the UI redesign some years ago and while it was kind of interesting, in practice very few players actually used the panel even when it was new. Since we're going to remove this panel in a few months time, and so few players are using it today, it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend the time fixing these bugs with it.

I'm sorry this is the response we've got for you on this, but your issue deserves an honest and complete answer even if it's probably not the one you're hoping for.

fgarbe commented 2 years ago

@jeffhill sad to hear but thanks for the reply.

I get that you are number driven but it's a standard feature in other mobas and objectively superior. You can see information about your hero, control it, and have access to information about another unit at the same time.

I feel like the numbers are just low because the feature has a weird name, lack of marketing. But maybe I'm just too used to it and biased.

anko commented 2 years ago

@jeffhill

in practice very few players actually used the panel even when it was new [...] and so few players are using it today

The panel has never even shown the TP slot, or Roshan's inventory! Since release!

If you release a feature broken and never update it, and then observe that nobody wants to use the obviously broken and unsupported feature, you can't logically conclude that nobody must have wanted it.

I feel frustrated because I think this feature has tons of unrealised potential, and didn't get the chance it deserved. But if the development team don't see it that way and would rather spend development resources elsewhere, I guess there's nothing to be done, and I understand. Thanks for giving it closure.

Azzurite commented 2 years ago

If you release a feature broken and never update it, and then observe that nobody wants to use the obviously broken and unsupported feature, you can't logically conclude that nobody must have wanted it.

Exactly. And since then, it just got more and more broken and incomplete. I would have loved to use it but never wanted to miss information, which I would have with it enabled.

To add to that - how many players actually go into the options of the game and even try every option there is? Obviously it's anecdotal, but all my friends never went into the gameplay options menu until I told them to change a few settings. So even if "very few players actually used the panel even when it was new", how many players actually tried? How many players tried, noticed it was incomplete on release, and turned it off again, never to think about it?

And another point - a bunch of pro players use this option. They must have a reason for it, and usually very good reasons. Being able to see enemy stats while seeing your own is a competitive advantage. The lost screen space is the only disadvantage. Tons of games have a separate "target" unit panel.

If this panel would've actually ever worked properly and been made the default, I'm sure you'd see a large increase in people who use it. (And since this might come up: it was made default at the beginning, but in its initial incomplete stage, so of course there's going to be backlash to that.)

Azzurite commented 2 years ago

Even the votes on this should show that a lot more people would use it if it wasn't broken. It's one of the most upvoted issues in this bugtracker.

AlynxZhou commented 2 years ago

OK, it turns out now Dota2 will select myself automatically if I press abilities when I select others by mistake, so my reason is useless. But I think when I starts to play Dota, using side panel is the only way to use abilities when another unit is selected.

My reason This is a basic feature for me, because if I click other unit by mistake, I can still use my own ability with this panel. But if I don't have this detached panel, my own unit is covered, I must first re-select myself, and only then can I use my own ability or item. Without this panel, I always select other unit by mistake (because my slow reaction, I always repeat "press ability, then press another hero" many times to make sure I can use it at the first time, and if those quick actions are not in sequence, I get other hero selected), and then I forget to re-select myself and do nothing and die. This side panel does not block my own ability, so even if I select other hero wrongly, I can still use my own abilities or items. If you really decide to remove it, please consider to implement something like "if I select another unit but I cannot use it's abilities or tools, I'll get myself re-selected automatically when I press keys for abilities or tools". Maybe many people have fast reaction so they can manually select themselves quickly if they click other units by mistake, but for a slow reaction guy like me, it's really hard. Maybe you'll say "is it so hard to press one more F1?", but it is just so hard for me, just like my fast reaction friends always ask "why you can't use your magic wand/eul/atos at that time?", maybe that's easy for many people, but it's hard for slow reaction guys. I even bind "select myself" to MOUSE4 to make it easier to press, but I still fail on this (I mean, re-selecting myself after selecting other units by mistake). I don't want to be slow reaction, either, but that is not something decided by myself, I tried a lot and found I really need this side panel to enjoy a normal game and help my teammates with my abilities. My reason might be different from others, but yes, I can even accept some trade-offs like no TP, no neutral item slot and missing a lot of other info, just because it's hard for me to use abilities easily without this panel. If you don't fix it, and just keep it instead of removing it, I think I'll still use it.
bwanners commented 2 years ago

BLUF: We're not maintaining this panel and we are planning to remove it after TI this year.

Thank you for taking the time to report these bugs and thank you to everyone who upvoted the issue! This issue led to a broader discussion this morning in the Dota developers chat about what to do about this issue - but we still don't plan to support this feature long term. This panel was a neat idea we tried in the UI redesign some years ago and while it was kind of interesting, in practice very few players actually used the panel even when it was new. Since we're going to remove this panel in a few months time, and so few players are using it today, it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend the time fixing these bugs with it.

I'm sorry this is the response we've got for you on this, but your issue deserves an honest and complete answer even if it's probably not the one you're hoping for.

@jeffhill Exactly what everyone else is saying. This is the preferred way of playing for a lot of people. And it may be, as percentage-wise, nowhere near the benchmark that you'd like to see, but people do in fact use it and love it. As others mention, pro players use it. Being a fairly new player myself (about 2 years) I never knew about it until watching OG.Taiga stream and I asked him about that "plug-in" and he simply said it was a built in option. None of my friends knew about this either. It isn't marketed at all and is in the most random location in settings that if you are not curious, you would never find it. I'm sure a lot of people would use it if 1) it was more well known and 2) it was updated and fixed.

I get it, resources are always limited. But please at the very minimum do not get rid of the feature. A lot of people are just used to playing this way now and prefer it. You may not update it, but at the very least please do not get rid of it. My two cents. Thank you.

unitqueryonepercenter commented 2 years ago

@jeffhill What a slap to the face. This is a numbers-driven bug tracker, you've expressed again and again that you want to work on what the community thinks is important, namely QoL changes that don't break the game.

This is one of the highest voted topics on this forum?? think of the amount of players that aren't even aware of this tracker's existence - they still long for the update this so sorely deserves. It just doesn't compute Jeff.

Maybe the software you use to determine the amount of unit query users is broken too?

unitqueryonepercenter commented 2 years ago

and outright removing it? seriously, what a tone deaf response. like wow, sorry for bringing this issue to your attention. maybe if we just shut up we'd still get the broken version. I hope all your games are ruined by smurfs jeff.

anko commented 2 years ago

For posterity: @jeffhill explained the decision further in a Reddit comment.

unitqueryonepercenter commented 2 years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/vig0uw/jeffhill_regarding_the_unit_query_panels/ide4htv/

tldr: it's hard to do. we have to make like 5 people do work

doesn't matter that it's been one of the most requested fixes since it fell behind - that shit takes time to fix lmao

small indie company btw

stiggy87 commented 2 years ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/vig0uw/jeffhill_regarding_the_unit_query_panels/ide4htv/

tldr: it's hard to do. we have to make like 5 people do work

doesn't matter that it's been one of the most requested fixes since it fell behind - that shit takes time to fix lmao

small indie company btw

So sorry that you're upset that the broader (30+ devs on Dota) looked at the numbers and facts, and determined that it's better to put a UI feature out to pasture than to keep it alive where it'll take probably over a year to fix. Even if they made this their highest priority, you're looking at +6 month worth of work with probably a dozen people all touching it in the main code base. I can even tell you from the request it was worth the discussion and making a tombstone for it.

Fixing a bug is really making these types of decisions:

  1. Time. A bug that takes a long time to fix, unless game breaking, is rarely looked at with high priority
  2. Money. A bug like this one will take a lot of time to fix, which means a lot of money goes into fixing it. Unless there's a monetary reason to fix it (will it sell more hats?) the chances of it being fixed is nil.
  3. Priority of issues. This repo has over 1.2k filed opened bugs, with probably more in their internal bug tracker. A feature like this is lowest priority compared to a really bad UI bug that can be considered game breaking.
  4. Feature work. Things like Battlepass take a lot of work, and there's deadlines (hopefully) for that this year. Would you rather they fix this UI thing that is used by <1% of the community, than get Battlepass out on time?

So while you're being snarky and a bit trolly, it doesn't help Jeff or anyone on the dev team to read it, and this bug should be locked from more comments.

unitqueryonepercenter commented 2 years ago

Would you rather they fix this UI, than get Battlepass out on time?

yes? but alas, no time, no money. just a humble indie company with only one dev. I guess I have to manage my expectations because gee wizz you've all made it clear that its super dooper hard to do :((

MonsieurPi commented 2 years ago

If I can just drop my 2 cents here, @jeffhill , please don't delete it at least, even if incomplete I'm happy with my current setting where I bound a key to toggle the Unit Query Panel on and off with:

bindtoggle "F1" dota_hud_new_query_panel

This way I can at least not have my panel replaced by other units panels most of the time and, when needed, I simply toggle it to check their neutral items, tp etc

xDekaLx commented 5 months ago

17511