[TF2] Shadows seen through the wall

[jorgenpt]

Issue transferred from ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux#420 @DarthBrandon posted at 2012-12-27T01:12:19Z:

During setup, I'm seeing the shadows of BLU team members through a wall of their base.

Processor Information: Vendor: GenuineIntel Speed: 2801 Mhz 4 logical processors 4 physical processors HyperThreading: Unsupported FCMOV: Supported SSE2: Supported SSE3: Supported SSSE3: Supported SSE4a: Unsupported SSE41: Supported SSE42: Supported

Network Information: Network Speed:

Operating System Version: Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS (64 bit) Kernel Name: Linux Kernel Version: 3.2.0-35-generic X Server vendor: The X.Org Foundation X Server release: 11103000

Video Card: Driver: NVIDIA Corporation GeForce GT 240/PCIe/SSE2

Driver Version:  3.3.0 NVIDIA 310.14
Desktop Color Depth: 24 bits per pixel
Monitor Refresh Rate: 60 Hz
VendorID:  0x10de
DeviceID:  0xca3
Number of Monitors:  1
Number of Logical Video Cards:  1
Primary Display Resolution:  1280 x 1024
Desktop Resolution: 1280 x 1024
Primary Display Size: 14.80" x 11.85"  (18.94" diag)
                                        37.6cm x 30.1cm  (48.1cm diag)
Primary Bus: PCI Express 16x
Primary VRAM: 1024 MB
Supported MSAA Modes:  2x 4x 8x 16x 

Sound card: Audio device: Realtek ALC888

Memory: RAM: 5927 Mb

Miscellaneous: UI Language: English LANG: en_US.UTF-8 Microphone: Not set Total Hard Disk Space Available: 187739 Mb Largest Free Hard Disk Block: 23387 Mb

Installed software:

Recent Failure Reports:

[jorgenpt]

@Dragonsbrethren posted at 2012-12-27T19:49:39Z:

This happens on Windows too. Shadows can be seen through thin walls. Most commonly I see it on the walls of the stairwell in the last area of Badwater.

[jorgenpt]

@ariscop posted at 2012-12-28T16:10:38Z:

More common to see shadows on the underside of floors, i also get this on both windows and linux.

[jorgenpt]

@ManOfFlash posted at 2013-01-23T11:51:49Z:

Confirm. For linux only! Processor Information: Vendor: AuthenticAMD Speed: 3200 Mhz 4 logical processors 4 physical processors HyperThreading: Unsupported FCMOV: Supported SSE2: Supported SSE3: Supported SSSE3: Supported SSE4a: Supported SSE41: Unsupported SSE42: Unsupported

Network Information: Network Speed:

Operating System Version: Linux (64 bit) Kernel Name: Linux Kernel Version: 3.6.11-gentoo X Server vendor: The X.Org Foundation X Server release: 11301000

Video Card: Driver: ATI Technologies Inc. ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series

Driver Version:  4.2.12002 Compatibility Profile Context 8.881
Desktop Color Depth: 24 bits per pixel
Monitor Refresh Rate: 59 Hz
VendorID:  0x1002
DeviceID:  0x68b8
Number of Monitors:  1
Number of Logical Video Cards:  1
Primary Display Resolution:  1680 x 1050
Desktop Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Primary Display Size: 18,66" x 11,65"  (21,97" diag)
                                        47,4cm x 29,6cm  (55,8cm diag)
Primary VRAM Not Detected

Sound card: Audio device:

Memory: RAM: 19974 Mb

Miscellaneous: UI Language: English LANG: ru_RU.UTF-8 Microphone: Not set Total Hard Disk Space Available: 29533 Mb Largest Free Hard Disk Block: 12200 Mb

Installed software:

Recent Failure Reports:

[jorgenpt]

@MrSchism posted at 2013-01-23T13:37:23Z:

Experiencing this bug on Windows/Linux as well.

[jorgenpt]

@stevethepocket posted at 2013-02-07T00:36:49Z:

I think this is a known issue. There's an entity in Hammer that can be used to disable shadows on certain surfaces, and the only reason I can think of why it would have been created is because they knew shadows were showing up where they weren't supposed to.

[jorgenpt]

@DarthBrandon, on which maps are you seeing this?

[DarthBrandon]

I see it on most maps, I think. As far as I can tell, the player has to be close enough to the wall for the shadows to appear on the other side, and I guess it depends on the type of wall. Maybe the thickness or something. I know I've seen it in certain areas on Dustbowl as well as some Payload and CTF maps. I think I saw it more recently on Sawmill. Judging by the other comments, I assume it's a Source engine thing and not really a TF2 or platform-specific bug. I kind of think it gives an unfair advantage in letting people know where other players are when they're not supposed to see them.

[jorgenpt]

Confirmed that this is not a Linux-specific bug. We'll see if there's some way to resolve it, but I don't know when we'll have a chance to get to it.

[wareya]

This is extremely easy to see in some of the areas around cp_granary 2/4. The zigzagging flank from the yard area especially.

[hookyboysb]

Is there an update on this, Valve devs?

[hookyboysb]

Still in the latest update.

[MrSchism]

This is a minor, albeit annoying bug. It makes me wonder if it popped up on OSX before the removal of D3D. It's also a common problem in other engines. One Ubisoft online free-to-play game had a similar issue that lasted for a while and they had a bit of an issue pinning down what caused it.

My only concern is that some games have long-standing bugs that people get used to exploiting... and it leaves me hoping that this doesn't become one.

[henke37]

Dude, this bug is older than the public release of TF2. Dynamic shadows is a joke.

[kisak-valve]

Hello, can someone confirm if this issue is still occurring with up to date video drivers?

[ghost]

Yes, the issue persists with up-to-date drivers Radeon Software Version - 16.8.2 Radeon Software Edition - Crimson Graphics Chipset - AMD Radeon R9 200 Series Memory Size - 2048 MB Memory Type - GDDR5 Core Clock - 1070 MHz Windows Version - Windows 8.1 (64 bit) System Memory - 8 GB CPU Type - Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-4330 CPU @ 3.50GHz Radeon Settings Version - 2016.0916.1515.27418 Driver Packaging Version - 16.30.2511.1001-160811a-305723E Provider - Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. 2D Driver Version - 8.01.01.1564 Direct3D® Version - 9.14.10.01209 OpenGL® Version - 6.14.10.13447 OpenCL™ Version - 6.14.10.13447 AMD Mantle Version - 9.1.10.0136 AMD Mantle API Version - 98309 AMD Audio Driver Version - 9.0.0.9910 Vulkan™ Driver Version - 1.2.0 Vulkan™ API Version - 1.0.17

[covertoperator]

Yes, this is a very common bug that everyone has learned to live with. It happens whenever there is a thin wall or ceiling (not sure about floors) that a player standing right next to (i.e. they have walked into it). I am on a mac with intel i7 CPU and intel 4000 GPU

For example, look at the sloped roof underneath the lower platform in the centre of hightower (above the lower health packs room). If there is a player standing on the sloped roof, you can see their shadow on the floor above them. I may create and upload screenshots on request.

[kamild1996]

I'm on Crimson ReLive (16.12.1), still happens. Actually, I don't remember since when it's happening, it was so long...

[ghost]

I think it's a bug occuring in other source games aswell

[henke37]

That last video seems to be for fancier stuff like dynamic lights and projected textures. This issue is just about plain old dynamic shadows that entities do with normal static lights.

[thejaviertc]

This bug still exists, has been in the game for a long time and is still happening to this day.

It can be used to know that someone is behind a corner or wall, like this video that I found on Reddit.

https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/45662206/178162138-ffef17ed-251a-41e6-aed4-275493fc79b5.mp4

[kamild1996]

What a blast from the past :) But yes, shadows still broken

[Ashetf2]

I just wanted to mention that toolsblocklight doesn't work to prevent this:

[stevethepocket]

Of course it doesn't. Light entities have nothing to do with dynamic shadow generation.

[Ashetf2]

@kisak-valve you may want to remove the "Future" milestone? It's been 9 years and there are no signs of this being fixed soon.

Also, if Valve or Joshua decides to fix this, I suggest to implement dynamic RTT shadow angles. There is already a tutorial on how to do it in the VDC: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dynamic_RTT_shadow_angles_in_Source_2007. Right now dynamic shadows uses light_environment as the source, and it looks ugly in interiors.

[Ashetf2]

I believe Valve when making CS:GO just gave up trying to fix this bug and then moved to CSM shadows. So, maybe for the summer update, instead of fixing this bug (if possible), we could get CSM shadows. This is an example on how it would look like.

(This is a modification to the game, it isn't CS:GO)

Of course, this would cause a drop in fps for low-end machines, so if it is implemented, RTT shadows may have to be kept but with player shadows disabled.