Replace the term "PC" with "Windows"

[DASPRiD]

The term "PC" was misused for a long time already, but didn't matter that much, as long as there was only Windows present. Now with more Linux games popping up in the store, it'd make a lot of sense to replace the term "PC" with "Windows", as Linux itself runs on PCs as well.

One could argue that Mac OSX technically runs on PCs as well, but that could be seen as a special case as Macs are PCs specifically built by Apple.

[kupiakos]

That, and Mac harware can run Windows and Linux as well - even more ambiguity there.

[DASPRiD]

@kupiakos Exactly. This is the reason why there shouldn't be a mix of operation systems and platforms.

[waerloga]

Perhaps instead, since the hardware requirements are effectively the same. Just list the differing OS requirements along with the hardware. You'd end up with a smaller list.

[DASPRiD]

@waerloga It's not only the hardware requirements; the label is also used in other places, for instance:

[waerloga]

Ah, that would be the place to put Windows/Mac OS/Linux

[fur0n]

I agree it should say "windows" not pc because I have a Linux PC not a windows pc. so when i saw pc games i thought that included linux at first. Fixing this grammatical error would help with less confusion as to what games are linux games.

[z0id]

"Hi, I'm a Mac! And I'm a PC!" Sounds familiar? I think that's the cause of this "bug". It probably doesn't sound strange to Americans (anymore) because of Apple's PR dep, but to me, as an European, it's a bit like "I'm a Toyota! And I'm a car."

[chippey]

Agreed - would also like to see this changed.

[Tele42]

since Macintosh is abbreviated, perhaps a set of 3 letter references could be used: Mac, Win, and Tux

[mattyy1hp]

+1 PC is personal computer - hardware. If a game is "for PC" and running only on Windows, it's game for Windows.

[ancow]

since Macintosh is abbreviated, perhaps a set of 3 letter references could be used: Mac, Win, and Tux

Tux is a mascot, not an abbreviation or an OS, so that would be inappropriate.

[lopho]

Then maybe: Mac, Win, Nix

though nix could be understood as Unix, Minix, Penix (sry :D), but its the only 3 letter abbr. that would fit. alternative: Lin or just freaking Linux, its short already, unlike Macintosh and Windows.

[mewt666]

does it have to be a 3 letter abbreviation ? Linux is only 5 letters, hardly gonna break any designs

On 19 January 2013 16:41, lopho notifications@github.com wrote:

Then maybe: Mac, Win, Nix

though nix could be understood as Unix, Minix, Penix (sry :D), but its the only 3 letter abbr. that would fit. alternative: Lin or just freaking Linux, its short already, unlike Macintosh and Windows.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/737#issuecomment-12456341.

[normcf]

Perhaps just using the three logos (resized to fit) would alleviate any language issues too. If, ever in the future, valve was to do Linux on ARM, then this would break because, I'm sure, the games list would be different.

[johndrinkwater]

[MrSchism]

Frankly, this is the source of "PC" in its most common usage:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible

As such, Windows and Dos (or dos-based) machines are PCs.

[DASPRiD]

@MrSchism: According to that article, it should be called "Wintel" though, instead of "PC" ;)… Also, machines are not Windows based, but windows is PC based, right the other way around.

[MrSchism]

Windows actually requires an "IBM-Compatable PC"

[DASPRiD]

@MrSchism Okay, then let's label it "The only system which only runs on IBM-Compatible PCs and nothign else", if you want to avoid the term "Windows" :D… Oh wait, Mac OS/X also only runs on that now, doesn't work anymore :)

[MrSchism]

Could also just point to tradition. Mac is still Mac, despite being Intel-based now. Mac has been a "PC" platform that runs off of a "Power-PC" chip. But it's nitpicking.

The biggest issue is the fact that there are so many more important issues.

[Gartral]

@DASPRiD er.. Windows also runs on ARM.. in the form of Windows RT.. or Window on ARM.

[Tele42]

If the adjustment were to be made forward-looking, perhaps a OS symbol (tile) over a generic PC symbol (tile), and for ARM, a OS symbol over a generic tablet symbol, with the platform gray on white to contrast with the white on gray symbol. The main point is to express that the arch and OS are expressed at the same time clearly.

[kupiakos]

@Tele42 Do realize that Valve has stated they will not support the Windows 8 Store, which is the only source of applications for Windows RT Devices, so Steam could (and would) not be supported on Windows RT devices. Also note that, when Windows RT was being criticized for closing its ecosystem, Windows RT was described as "[n]ot Windows anymore." We won't ever have to worry about Windows RT devices and Steam. Frankly, Windows RT sucks. I think the simple solution is replace PC with Windows, as the bug states.

[Tele42]

@kupiakos: yes, I am aware, but windows is not the only OS headed towards mainstream support on ARM. The topic of the issue report has split into two parts, the labeling of the of games category "PC" and the use of "PC" as a platform. I was just adding a thought to the latter half.

[MrSchism]

@kupiakos The simplest solution is to read "PC" and look at the icon (clearly Windows) and leave things as they are so devs can focus on bigger issues.

[DASPRiD]

@MrSchism Do you really believe that the same developers working on engines, games and such are also responsible for this? Seriously, they are likely part of gettext files or such, and thus not even part of the work of developers. And even if so, it'd for the web developers, a completely other group of people.

[MrSchism]

@DASPRiD Valve Software is flatland. These sort of requests are either handled directly OR are handed directly to whoever handles it. Either way, those guys need to be made aware of the issue and THOSE guys also have stuff on their plates.

[DASPRiD]

@MrSchism And you think that this will take up so much time for them? Seriously, that's FUD.

[MrSchism]

I don't think that means what you think it does....

[LinAGKar]

Mac OS X is now called just OS X, and "Linux" should be called Gnu/Linux. So:

Windows | OS X | Gnu/Linux

[Salamek]

Just Windows|MAC|Linux should be ok, dont mess around with so stupid issue...

[Shished]

MAC is MAC-address. Mac is computer, defferent OSes can be installed on it. Just Windows|OSX|Linux.

[stevethepocket]

@LinAGKar Just plain "Linux" is fine, thanks. I don't care what Stallman or whoever expects us to call it; he lost his vote when he got it into his head that a forward slash means "and" or "plus". It'd be like calling Windows "DOS/Windows". (Or, if "GNU" is referring to the license, "Copyright/Windows".)

[Majkl578]

@LinAGKar: It's GNU/Linux, not Gnu/Linux.

:+1: for Windows / OS X / GNU/Linux (or just Linux).

[LinAGKar]

Windows no longer runs on DOS, and wen it did it was a DE, unlike Linux wich is the kernel, so the we would call Linux KDE, Gnome etc..

[cjwijtmans]

Windows|OSX|GNU.

As a lot of games are based on GNU and not the linux kernel, a lot of games on GNU/linux would work on GNU/BSD as well.

[Shished]

Do you mean debian gnu/kfreebsd and gnu/hurd? I dont think games will work there.

[cjwijtmans]

As long as they have valid opengl libraries and graphics drivers, i dont see why a gnu/linux game wouldnt work on gnu/bsd.

[DASPRiD]

I'm still pretty okay with Windows, OSX, Linux.

[cjwijtmans]

me to

[WhyNotHugo]

I strongly agree that Mac should also be renamed to OSX, since Mac, much like PC, describes the hardware, which can run serveral differents OSs.

There are no ARM games for the moment, so it's a bit early to worry about those. While GNU/Linux is targeting ARM, steam is not, and there are definitely no games targeting ARM+GNU/Linux on steam.

@lopho nix is just plain wrong, since it loads to assume this includes unix (or BSDs), while this is Linux (which isn't even unix).

[kupiakos]

I agree with DASPRiD and many before him. It really doesn't matter what these OSes are technically called. Windows, Mac, and Linux will make the most sense to normal gamers - the people who matter. If we wanted to be 100% technically correct, we'd say Windows NT, Macintosh OS X, and GNU/Linux. That will sound too technical to "regular people". Replacing PC with Windows makes sense because of how generic the term "PC" actually is. But this won't really matter because people associate Windows with PC because of the "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" commercials (among many other reasons). But the fight of Linux vs. GNU/Linux vs. *nix has been going on forever. Everyone outside of the Linux community will just call it Linux. Most of these gamers aren't part of the "Linux community" and they shouldn't need to ask what GNU actually is.

[WhyNotHugo]

The "I'm a PC/I'm a Mac" commercial was only aired in USA, and the term PC is only related to Windows in the US. People actually consider apple's computers a "PC" elsewhere (at least in everyday speach).

OSX is a quite common way of referencing the OS for mac users. "Mac" is technically wrong. It should also be noted that much of apple's hardware runs iOS, not OSX, which is not compatible at all.

I Feel that Linux is OK though - some will claim that GNU/Linux is correct, it's actually GNU/Linux/X that's "correct". Anyway, no-one will misunderstand what "Linux" means in this context. Android may be Linux-based, but Android users never refer to it as Linux, nor expect anything that says "Linux" to apply to them, so that won't be an issue.

[cjwijtmans]

PC means Personal Computer to me, so even smartphones, laptopts etc. are PCs to me.

[ribeirobreno]

I agree with @cjwijtmans

PC means Personal Computer to me, so even smartphones, laptopts etc. are PCs to me.

And with @kupiakos

Windows, Mac, and Linux will make the most sense to normal gamers - the people who matter.

To make things easier for the "average end user", i can understand the term Linux referring to a range of OS'es and Mac to OSX, but not PC referring to any of them or Windows. IMHO the main priority is replacing the term PC as most games on Steam are compatible with PC's using windows but not with PC's using any other OS.

My main PC does not have Windows! And in my region "regular people" can buy PC's without Windows, so please @ValveSoftware fix this one. :)

[cjwijtmans]

Linux could also mean android. so GNU is better than linux.

[ribeirobreno]

@cjwijtmans actually, it would be ubuntu. :)

GNU is a collection of software that is part of several linux distributions (including ubuntu itself) and Valve or most developers selling their games through steam haven't stated their support for GNU which would mean releasing the source code to their games and to deny using any nonfree software as for example the proprietary nvidia drivers as their software requires.

GNU/Linux is an ancient discussion that i can understand and i think there should be another bug filled just for this one.

The Mac/OSX thing i cannot really understand why someone would care at all... if it is the case, please do submit a bug for that.

Again, in my opinion the PC term is the only one that is just too wrong to survive as it refers to all platforms steam supports independent on what they are called.

[cjwijtmans]

"@cjwijtmans actually, it would be ubuntu. :)"

I use gentoo not ubuntu. what do they have in common? GNU. And there are distros that use BSD or hurd instead of linux, software such as steams talks to GNU, not linux or hurd or BSD. You are in the very wrong here.

[ribeirobreno]

I use gentoo not ubuntu. what do they have in common? GNU. And there are distros that use BSD or hurd instead of linux, software such as steams talks to GNU, not linux or hurd or BSD. You are in the very wrong here.

@cjwijtmans GNU Software, as we agree, is a part of several linux distributions. Valve has chosen to support "Linux" and for now they support Ubuntu as we can see from their support website. You are correct to say steam "talks" to GNU but Valve has clearly stated support for a very specific (GNU?/)Linux distribution that GNU does not like and GNU has even said something about steam. ;)

---

TL;DR: I'm not wrong neither you.

[cjwijtmans]

Irrelevant, several distros have steam in their repos. My point still stand and yours still falls.