2020 Spring Virtual F2F

[hober]

Web Components Spring 2020 Virtual F2F

Where: https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/wiki/2020-Spring-Virtual-F2F#conference-call-information When: Monday 23 & Tuesday 24, 3 PM - 7 PM UTC Agenda and summary of conclusions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lpy6k_ZlI5iVo-Y0vJaDfFAQvYRjpZqUcSlnOex2A0Q/edit#heading=h.9ut5sja3keva Minutes: Day 1, Day 2

[pmdartus]

Thanks @hober for starting the thread.

Concerning the venue, I currently have an option March 24th-25th and March 30th-31st on a meeting room at the Salesforce Paris office (3 avenue Octave Greard). This room can accomodate up to 25 persons.

@diervo also made sure that attendees don't need to sign a NDA to attend any standard meeting inside Salesforce buildings.

[annevk]

I can no longer do 23-30 25-30 unfortunately and the week before is not great either, but might be doable. Sorry about that.

[rniwa]

Cc'ing more folks for visibility: @dandclark @travisleithead @justinfagnani @diervo @caridy @muan @JanMiksovsky @tomalec @tkent-google @rakina @domenic

[caridy]

Keep in mind that TC39 will be hosted by Apple in CA the week of the 31st. I prefer the week of the 16th.

[travisleithead]

We're planning to call-in for an update on JSON/CSS/HTML modules rather than attend in person. So my preference would be a North America venue for the time-zone, but that's not a deal-breaker. If the meeting follows TC39 we will likely have more to report about how the proposal is coming along.

@bocupp

[justinfagnani]

I'm checking my calendar right now, but I most likely can't make March 30/31. Updated the doodle. cc @azakus @aomarks @sorvell @kevinpschaaf

[rniwa]

@annevk : Could you fill your availability in doodle?

@travisleithead / @BoCupp : Sad to hear you're not attending in preson but could you fill doodle with your availability for call-ins?

[rniwa]

@justinfagnani : Sounds like March 30 & 31 are out since @hober, @caridy, and you can't attend it.

[hober]

As of right now, we've had 12 responses to the poll. The dates with the maximum availability are currently March 23rd and 24th.

@annevk wrote:

I can no longer do 23-30 unfortunately and the week before is not great either, but might be doable. Sorry about that.

Did you edit your Doodle results to that effect?

[annevk]

Yeah, I reassessed and decided I could do Monday 23/Tuesday 24 if need be. Thanks for checking!

[caridy]

Same here, I can try to do Monday 23/Tuesday 24.

[rniwa]

Hm... looks like 3/23-24 are only dates @travisleithead isn't available.

@travisleithead : do you have anyone else from Microsoft who could attend those dates?

[travisleithead]

Those are dates I'm not fully available, but can be available at certain times--for example, I could help ensure specific topics land at certain times in the agenda :) So, don't consider my unavailable times as blocking. I do suspect that @BoCupp and @dandclark are likely available, though they'd need to confirm.

[pmdartus]

We will not be able to host in the Salesforce office on March 23rd, all the meeting rooms are already booked that day.

I am working on fallback plan to host the meeting in a different venue in Paris. I will keep you posted once I have more information.

[pmdartus]

First of all, happy new year to everybody!

After some discussion, I was able to get some budget to host the event in Paris! It is highly likely that we will host that Salesforce will host the event at the ~Pullman Paris Tour Eiffel right next to the office~ (the location has been updated see comment below).

If we were to host the event at the Pullman, I am also planning to ask for a special discount for the attendees.

Based on the doodle responses, it appears that March 23 and 24 is the most convenient date for everybody. Can we settle on those dates?

[annevk]

Thanks so much @pmdartus! Shall we give everyone until Friday and then consider it decided?

[pmdartus]

Sounds good to me.

[mfreed7]

So it sounds (from the lack of objections) like March 23-24 are the firm dates?

[hober]

Okay, great. I've updated the issue description to say that we're planning to have a two-day F2F on 23–24 March in Paris, France, hosted by Salesforce, and that the dates are fixed but the exact location is TBD.

@pmdartus, please do let us know once the venue is confirmed, and thanks again for hosting.

[pmdartus]

I will keep up you updated, once I am done with booking the venue. I hope to have everything approved by the end of next week.

[pmdartus]

I have some good news, I just received the confirmation from the venue! The meeting will be hosted at the Sofitel Baltimore in Paris on March 23-24. Please ignore the location in my previous comment.

I booked a room for 25 people. If you are planning to attend and haven't responded to the original doodle, please let me know.

I have also negotiated a small discount for the meeting attendees with Sofitel (room upgrade and breakfast). If you are interested here is the reservation form with the different pricing.

[hober]

@pmdartus wrote:

I have some good news, I just received the confirmation from the venue!

That's great! Thank you so much for arranging this. I've updated the issue text with the latest details.

[ruphin]

I am planning to attend with @LarsDenBakker from @open-wc, on behalf of @ing-bank. @pmdartus Is there still capacity available?

We have particular interest in scoped registries. We are deploying web components at scale, and we can share information on challenges we are facing.

[hober]

@annevk @caridy @emilio @justinfagnani @LarsDenBakker @mfreed7 @pmdartus @rniwa @ruphin @travisleithead

I've stubbed a wiki page for the F2F to generate a list of attendees and an agenda. Please add your name and topics if you're attending.

[diervo]

@hober I don't think some of us have the right privileges to modify the wiki, which for the agenda would be handy :)

[rniwa]

Perhaps we can create another issue for agenda last year, and those of us who have edit privileges can update the wiki as we go.

[bkardell]

I certainly don't have the privileges, and unfortunately I can't recall if I filled in the doodle or not now, but I would like to attend.

[diervo]

@rniwa @annevk @hober may I ask that someone from Salesforce have some minimal privileges to update the wiki and/or issues? I think last year the agenda became hard to rationalize due to all incoming topics from everybody at the same time. At least that way I can coordinate all our proposals in case we have do update or changes things. Also since we are organizing this time around it will help so we can update logistics as changes occur.

[rniwa]

@rniwa @annevk @hober may I ask that someone from Salesforce have some minimal privileges to update the wiki and/or issues? I think last year the agenda became hard to rationalize due to all incoming topics from everybody at the same time. At least that way I can coordinate all our proposals in case we have do update or changes things. Also since we are organizing this time around it will help so we can update logistics as changes occur.

It might be better for you to do that work & post the list of agenda either here on a new issue. Then we can add them to the list. If we give someone from Salesforce editing privilege, people from other organizations without editing privileges still won't be able to add topics.

[sideshowbarker]

@diervo, @bkardell I changed the perms on the wiki, so I think you both (and others) should be able to make edits in the wiki now. If not, lemme know

[hober]

Reminder to add your name to the wiki page so we know who's coming!

[tomalec]

I hope there is still some place left for me to join. (Just added myself to the wiki)

[pmdartus]

If you are interested in booking a room at the Sofitel for the meeting, I extended the deal until the end of next week (Friday 02/21).

[mfreed7]

What's the current thinking about whether to have this F2F, given COVID-19? It is a very small gathering, so it seems ok to me, but I just wanted to bring it up here.

[rniwa]

Few folks have told me privately that they have or are planning to cancel the travel plans. Tess and I are still planning to fly to Paris but I'm closely monitoring the situation.

We may need to have a contingency plan for having meeting over phones / video conference, and/or have a specific date to make a call as to whether we're gonna cancel the meeting or not.

Meanwhile if anyone is canceling the travel plan, please update the agenda.

[justinfagnani]

I haven't booked travel yet and I'm on the fence with new guidance from our travel office coming out and new cases in France. It's very hard to know what the situation is going to be like in a month :(

[pmdartus]

We are also closely monitoring the progress of the Coronavirus in Paris. At the time of this writing, most of the cases are contained outside Paris. While I hope it will be contained, we can expect the virus to gain some grounds in the following days and weeks.

Let's take Monday 9 March as the date where we would make the final call about the meeting cancelation. I will start the discussion with Sofitel in regard to a possible last-minute cancellation.

As a contingency plan, I am proposing to do a video conference on the same date as the original in-person F2F since some of you already originally booked some time on your calendar to attend this meeting. The exact time needs to be discussed to accommodate everybody's timezone.

[mfreed7]

Well, Google's travel guidance has been updated again, and it now definitely precludes this F2F. I'd still like to VC in, though.

[justinfagnani]

Yeah, I won't be able to attend, nor @kevinpschaaf from our team. Would like to VC as well.

[rniwa]

Looks like the Louvre was closed on Sun, March 1st. I’ve started to think that perhaps we need to call it off to be on safe side.

[pmdartus]

As the number of cases in France already reached +200 peoples in France and in light of the different travel policy changes, I, unfortunately, think we will have to cancel the in-person meeting and fallback to a virtual conference call.

Now speaking about the logistics for the conference call, I am proposing to hold it on March 23-24. Starting at the meeting at 10 am EST is a nice middle ground since most of the participants are either located in Europe or on the West Coast.

[rniwa]

By EST 10am, you mean UTC 3pm? The U.S. will be in day light saving time by then.

That would be PDT (Bay Area) 8am, CET (Paris) 4pm, and EDT (New York) 11am.

Maybe we can have two 4 hour sessions?

[mfreed7]

So it looks like the previous agenda has been removed? Is there a new place to put agenda items?

[rniwa]

Ugh... not sure what happened there. Filed https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/868 to track agenda.

[annevk]

I suspect Tess renamed it so now it's at https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/wiki/2020-Spring-Virtual-F2F.

[hober]

oh ugh, sorry. I didn't know retitling would break links. ugh.

[hober]

fixed the link in the issue text

[rniwa]

Right now, declarative shadow DOM is the only topic being listed. If that's the case, we probably don't need two days.

[justinfagnani]

I just added scoped custom element registries and theming.

[JanMiksovsky]

I think it'd be worth doing more preparation than usual ahead of the upcoming meeting to compensate for the serious challenge of doing the meeting entirely remotely.

• We've often put together an agenda on the whiteboard at the beginning of the meeting and allocate time for various topics. We'll need something to replace that whiteboard.
• Additionally, I think we often spend quite a bit of time at the start of each topic trying to reconstruct who cares about the topic, why it's on the agenda, where the discussion stopped at the last meeting or how the discussion may have evolved online.
• It may be harder in an online forum to wrap up a topic and definitively move on to the next one.

Proposal:

1. Create a live agenda document that updates in real time so everyone can see where we're at.
2. Before the meeting, ensure that each proposed topic has an advocate. If that person's time allows, they'd be encouraged to prepopulate the agenda with a 1–3 sentence summary of where things stand on the topic and what people should be prepared to discuss.
3. At the start of the meeting, we'll agree on the numerical order in which we want to discuss the topics and how much time we want to allocate. That goes in the live agenda.
4. When we're ready to start a topic, the designated advocate will kick of the discussion with a concise summary of where things stand and what we need to talk about.
5. When we're ready to wrap up on a topic, an agenda secretary will record the summary of the discussion in the agenda. This secretary is not the scribe or the chair; they're just focused on maintaining the representation of the agenda. By being able to see the resolution or follow-up steps in writing, it should be easier for remote participants to agree on their understanding and prepare to move on to the next topic.
6. We update the agenda as we go.

If something along these lines sound useful, I volunteer to act as that agenda secretary.

I put together a sample live agenda document based on what's currently on the wiki. That document is open for anyone to edit. I prepopulated it with topics based on what was on the agenda in September 2019 and what's on the wiki page. People who want to keep adding to the wiki can obviously do so — I could move over the content before the meeting — but I think we'll want more detail before the meeting starts than just topic names and links.

A separate point we need to consider is producing meeting minutes. Historically we've had a rotating volunteer scribe record notes in IRC, then another volunteer publish those online. Doing the meeting online (Google Meet, I'm guessing?) opens up the possibility of automated transcription. It appears that Meet can generate captions, but turning those into a transcription requires a Chrome Extension. If there are other options, we could look at those. While automated transcription might not be ideal, it might suffice, and it would free up all participants to focus on the conversation.

We'll also need to make heavy use of a speaker queue. We've historically used Zakir in IRC, and could continue to do that. Alternatively, TC39 uses https://tcq.app and one of my colleagues has had a good experience with that. (TCQ has its own, much more rudimentary, representation of an agenda.)