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Warcraft-GoA-Development-Team / Warcraft-Guardians-of-Azeroth-2

"Guardians of Azeroth" is a mod for Crusader Kings 3 with a worldwide development team, based on the Warcraft universe by Blizzard Entertainment. In this mod, our team is working to recreate the world of Azeroth in all of its glory, particularly focusing on the story of the classic Warcraft strategy games and World of Warcraft Classic.
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Title/Dynastic Continuity for Fallen Nations #922

Open VespertinePetrichor opened 2 years ago

VespertinePetrichor commented 2 years ago

Describe your suggestion in full detail below:

While fixing "hole in history" errors for titles, I discovered an opportunity for us to better flesh out the micro aspect of WarCraft which Blizzard often ignores. Since CK3 relies on having visible provinces as holdings on the map, there are quite a few characters (lore ones) in the history from the CK2 port who have titles with no land (e.g. d_wintergrasp for 190878) that are in the game but have no location and can't be interacted with.

This is or can be the fate of tribal/adventurer nations who are defeated in lore history. The many Orc clans and Troll tribes with titles such as Bleeding Hollow, Shattered Hand or Stormreaver illustrate this. Many Orcish clans were absorbed into Thrall's Horde and lost their cultural identity in the official canon, but I think it would be cool if we could ensure the continuity of these clans even as symbolic through a system like the Zandalari House of the Fallen Tribes. In doing so, we allow these famous titles/dynasties to persist and potentially remain politically relevant through scheming into power again. The culture update in Royal Court futher enriches the value in retaining the cultural uniqueness of these titular nations.

In the aftermath of losing their lands/realm, I conceptualise the heirs of these d_duchy title holders (they have no de jure lands) holding castle baronies (can be inherited) in a single county owned by the top liege of the realm. You can think of them as having their own little corner within a dedicated "embassy" county. There is currently no county in the mod massive enough to support so many baronies, so this approach necessitates a map update. Even then, the county would be huge so let's discuss some alternate methods of implementing this.

Remerod commented 2 years ago

I'm uncertain of what your suggesting? you saying to put shattered hands in unimportant places like wintergrasp just as a fun opm?

arithon commented 2 years ago

Uuuhm, in order to do that, wouldn't EVERY county have to be large enough to hold an unlimited amount of these baronies, since you never know what lands the top lieges will rule? Like, if you made one close to stormwind big enough for all azerothian families stay ingame after they lose the first war, what happens if that county gets lost in a war? Than they'd all lose their lands once again and the winner of said war gets a county with ~20+ baronies... I don't think this'd work with an actual/real province...

VespertinePetrichor commented 2 years ago

I'm uncertain of what your suggesting? you saying to put shattered hands in unimportant places like wintergrasp just as a fun opm?

Imagine a dedicated valley in Orgrimmar, large enough to house the vestigal clan members of various Orc tribes who had their leaders slain in the lore and who we subsequently never hear about again. It's in effect the same as the Zandalari embassy from WoW, only these clans would number from a dozen to a few hundred since they weren't completely obliterated.

@arithon Yeah...this isn't a clearcut solution. Welp, the issue is up now if CK3 one day releases an update with more mechanics for unlanded titled rulers or perhaps support for baronies without an on-map location.

ValianBlue commented 2 years ago

This reminds me of #639. While I do like the concept of "vestigial rulers," it's important that we set the boundaries for this. If every human nation could become vestigial, we'd run into a "flood" problem which would also affect performance I imagine. In that regard, I'd only consider the explicit cases in the lore (such as the aforementioned House of the Fallen Tribes) or for the most notable rulers like the Wrynn dynasty who fled north to Lordaeron following the First War.

With that stated, I share @arithon's sentiments.

VespertinePetrichor commented 2 years ago

In that regard, I'd only consider the explicit cases in the lore

This could be a one time event that fires conditional to the worldstate meeting parameters :thinking:. For instance: landless title owners, available baronies in the target county, top realm ruling character culture/faith/relationship, etc.

zumbak04 commented 2 years ago

I'm not sure about techical part. Pay attention to it.