Alchemist Re-Suggestion

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: Re-Suggestion of the previously denied Alchemist from #"762-Alchemist"

Basically a role that can use the power of an arbitrary werewolf.

I think this idea could be quite interesting, if we make it an imitation, where it gains a strong disguise and is seen as a lycan.

This way it would also the lycan part of Rogue Wolf <#1135724629630128168> much better as it couldn't just proof itself with its power.

One issue with the old Alchemist was the low amount of useful powers, but since then we've added a few more roles that it could use as powers + there's a bunch of roles which would be useful to imitate with the disguise (Warlock-imitating Alchemist is different from just a Fortune Teller if there's other investigative powers)

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: All of these would be useful now

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: Additionally: • Alpha Wolf (a bit op maybe) • CF (nerfed FT) • DF • PT (nerfed Tanner) • Recluse
• Lone Wolf (with modifications ig) • Lone Warlock (with modifications ig) • Saboteur Wolf (useless, I think? but maybe not) • Wolf Cub (a debuff for town) • Baroness • Gallant Fox • Greater Coyote

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: All the powers should pretty much work immediately without complications if we add "any ability or situations that would result in a role change caused by the role the Alchemist is imitating will instead just result in a loss of the power/imitation"

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn:

Additionally: • Alpha Wolf (a bit op maybe) • CF (nerfed FT) • DF • PT (nerfed Tanner) • Recluse
• Lone Wolf (with modifications ig) • Lone Warlock (with modifications ig) • Saboteur Wolf (useless, I think? but maybe not) • Wolf Cub (a debuff for town) • Baroness • Gallant Fox • Greater Coyote

maybe we can change AW to redirection of the lynch since that's the town sided poll

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: nah

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: If we start doing things like that it's going to get overcomplicated

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: fair

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: This role is most useful for other players or even in games where it is not, since it adds uncertaintiy for whether a wolf is really a wolf or not

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: disguises are supposed to help with that, but more often than not they are used to hide, so most of the time anyone seen as wolf is a wolf

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: Rogue Wolf was supposed to do the same, but it will never completely work there as the killing mechanic is confirmable

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: the Alchemist power can be confirmable too, but you wouldn't know if it was a wolf or an alchemist

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: I suggest if we add WC then KW and ScW should be added

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: <@242983689921888256> 1) would it be www style imitation with a strong disguise too? 2a) would fox alchemists gain the join pack ability 2b) also would they feed info to pack 3) Do we go with all packless and give tanner the PT ability instead, mostly because Packless abilitys seem to be the useful ones 4) We removed TC because a town aligned WC sucked idt we should add it back

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn:

I suggest if we add WC then KW and ScW should be added

ignore this see 3 AF and Recluse are better anyway

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts:

I suggest if we add WC then KW and ScW should be added

already listed in the first list

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts:

All the powers should pretty much work immediately without complications if we add "any ability or situations that would result in a role change caused by the role the Alchemist is imitating will instead just result in a loss of the power/imitation"

1) yes strong disguise + gaining the lycan attribute 2a) the join pack ability is made useless by this 2b) yes 3) what 4) yeah, but it could theoretically exist

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: wait, an alchemist imitating a fox would be able to join pack?

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: that seems like the worst idea ever suggested in the history of werewolves

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: oh nvm did you just phrase your answer to 2a really badly

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn:

1) yes strong disguise + gaining the lycan attribute 2a) the join pack ability is made useless by this 2b) yes 3) what 4) yeah, but it could theoretically exist

3) was the suggestion that it copies packless wolves instead, since you also missed off lots of pack wolves fsr I thought this is the direction you were going

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: which ones did I miss that would do anything?

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: oh nvm

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: they're on the image

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: I dont have InfW bc its useless

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: yeah it was me not reading the image

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: cf is more interesting cause of 0 and 1 votes now

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts:

cf is more interesting cause of 0 and 1 votes now

huh?

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: town can basically eliminate a wolf vote if they wanted rather than giving them -1

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: do you mean CW?

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: oh yeah CW

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: What I think is really interesting about this is that it makes it possible for e.g. a CW to claim Alchemist and just use their CW action to confirm themselves

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: also tanner is basically huntsman with a disguise

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn:

What I think is really interesting about this is that it makes it possible for e.g. a CW to claim Alchemist and just use their CW action to confirm themselves

oh yeah

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: We could add cca

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: no

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: did a single person like it?

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: wolves did

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: jay even suggested adding it as a variant role

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: you can always open a feeedback and discussion thread for it 🙂

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange:

jay even suggested adding it as a variant role

did i? because i think that's a very bad idea

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn:

did i? because i think that's a very bad idea

https://discord.com/channels/584765921332297775/1135724629630128168/1135735818108027071

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: well i no longer think that

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: <@544125116640919557>

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: I feel like this role is a bit meh just cause in an open list it will always be 50/50 cause a wolf will claim it and the actual role will claim it

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: postponed