Cursed Civilian becomes Recluse

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e_thsn: Thinking about what was said in <#1137886311815073953> about how cciv is a role where people think they can gamethrow I think changing wolf to recluse in the transformation will help: A) not in pack so no immediate confirmation B) even if they are turned they don't know who turned them so no immediate contact C) wolves may waste an extra kill

Other benefits D) Town can maybe bait wolves into attacking a protected town by them claiming cciv and wolves don't have confirmation that they were turned E) Town could fake cciv turned recluse if they know they were attacked F) Can't be immediately confirmed by an AT or Huntsman

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e_thsn: <@242983689921888256> <@458727748504911884> <@277156693765390337> <@1128835221341622342> <@768019751976566825> <@993223084775579699> (I have no role ping access)

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captain.luffy: Is raven a committe member

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e_thsn: He's rule book discussion

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e_thsn: It also makes sense when you think cciv used to become packless wolf but that role sucked

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nottinghamshire: What about the beloved fortune teller

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nottinghamshire: Jk

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nottinghamshire: But no this really improves the role

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raven1207.2:

Is raven a committe member

I've talked frequently in suggestions

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raven1207.2: :3

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nottinghamshire: I feel like it removes all instances of weird meta and stuff

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e_thsn: It definitely discourages attempts to be converted

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mctsts: this just feels like packless wolf 2 electric boogaloo

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mctsts: no

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e_thsn: I thought the issue with PlW was it didn't do anything and had no way to find pack

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mctsts: <@544125116640919557> do you wish to put this up for vote?

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e_thsn: Errr

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e_thsn: sure

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mctsts: <@&1045732542399131769> make CCiv turn into Recluse if attacked

✅ ⛔ 🤷

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e_thsn: Ah I was gonna write a long one <:pffffft:705639986384601110>

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mctsts: you can write more information

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e_thsn: Basically a fix for cciv, making it less of a benefit to the player to be converted

No longer are they instantly confirmed by pack as a team member + no immediate contact Wolves no longer know which role they attacked On the other hand it is immune to AT + Huntsman

[CrowdfordBot]

e_thsn: <@242983689921888256> <@277156693765390337> <@839150186613702749> btw you should probably provide reasons if you're voting no

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venomousbirds: cciv is fine now

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venomousbirds: imo

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mctsts: makes a bad role worse

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venomousbirds: yup

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mctsts:

this just feels like packless wolf 2 electric boogaloo

• this

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shapechange: i wouldn't say explicitly "worse" but it does make the least enjoyable role in the game even less enjoyable

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mctsts: yes, thats what I meant

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mctsts: it may be in theory more balanced or whatever, but it will suck more to play it

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shapechange: yes sorry im just brain poisoned from telic egalitarianism and now overspecify

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mctsts: this is what we realized with Packless Wolf - it already kinda sucks to be CCiv and if you dont even join the wolfpack its just miserable

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venomousbirds: changing teams and then ending up on not even a team

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venomousbirds: hey at least this suggestion prevents being turned by www and then getting killed by www directly 🙃

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e_thsn: This thread was made after multiple people made attempts or vocalised attempts to gamethrow by teaming with wolves in <#1133375238827147274>

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venomousbirds: which isnt allowed so you gotta tell them its not allowed

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venomousbirds: and their wish is very understandable with curse caster ingame

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venomousbirds: i dont think you can argue about cciv wanting to turn when you have an offseason with curse caster

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e_thsn: Fair

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e_thsn: Tho it had been noticed before

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venomousbirds: when?

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mctsts: since like s1

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mctsts: when you change CCiv to not join pack instead of contemplating game throwing people contemplating quitting WWR forever

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mctsts: CCiv just isn't very fun to play as

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mctsts: people will always consider gamethrowing with CCiv because its obvious to do - we have to tell them to stop it

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mctsts: its the price of having CCiv, but CCiv is still an important role to have

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e_thsn: What happened to that CCiv thinking they're cit suggestion?

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mctsts: now that just makes cit worse too

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mctsts: also I think we have commitment to not keeping roles secret from the players

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mctsts: in that way at least