hags discussion s10g7

[CrowdfordBot]

captainluffy: I dont think they are that great of a role, but i dont think theres much more I'd want to change about them other than maybe moving them back to UAA based on our recent discussions of formalizing/defining role categories. are there any thoughts or concerns after this recent game

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huckhuck55: Imo, 3 hags are better than 2.

The last game was unlucky due to them being missed by all attacks. That said, they do create a forced level of inactivity due to people being afraid of hitting the hags and wronging them. So that’s perhaps an issue. But mechanically speaking, I think they are cool. But perhaps they are what slowed this game down so much? 🤷‍♂️

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captainluffy: they are an issue but i dont think theres any changes to be made that could fix such an issue

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captainluffy: other than revamping the role

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huckhuck55: I mean. They also do create a huge loss for anyone that hits them. Cuz like. If you wrong them, adding 1-2 more ppl against your alignment… that’s hard to recover from.

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captainluffy: as a whole they are problematic, but as for improving them while still retaining the same wincon

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captainluffy: i dont know how much room there is to do so

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captainluffy: cuz the wincon itself might be the issue

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captainluffy: having 2 of them instead of 3 does reduce the problemt hough

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captainluffy: they kind of just take up space in the role list while also not interacting with the game very much

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captainluffy: if anyhing they kind of reduce motivation to interact with the game, to some extent

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shapechange: i think this was a really bad game to use hags in, i think all the issues you guys have with them don't happen in lists that are suited to them, and honestly you almost seem to be making up issues based on what you THINK COULD happen rather than what we see DOES happen

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange: this was a bad game for hags because a) there were only two of them, meaning that in the process of getting wronged they would necessarily be reduced to a 1p team b) this was too small of a game to use hags in - three hags in a 24p list seems like the minimum to me honestly

[CrowdfordBot]

captainluffy:

they kind of just take up space in the role list while also not interacting with the game very much

i think this issue does hold though to some extent, through most of their games

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange:

Imo, 3 hags are better than 2.

The last game was unlucky due to them being missed by all attacks. That said, they do create a forced level of inactivity due to people being afraid of hitting the hags and wronging them. So that’s perhaps an issue. But mechanically speaking, I think they are cool. But perhaps they are what slowed this game down so much? 🤷‍♂️

I don't know where you're getting this forced inactivity thing because it didn't happen at all and never has - no team this game or in others deliberately forewent actions because they were worried it could cause a hag wronging.

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange:

i think this issue does hold though to some extent, through most of their games

I think it's true that they're not necessarily super impactful roles, but I don't think they're any less impactful than most unaligned. Your point about them taking up space in a list doesn't hold when you put them in larger lists.

[CrowdfordBot]

captainluffy: so the main thing to improve on if possible, it so get them to interact with the game more, because for them its kind of better to sit back and wait to see who's closer to winning at endgame before doing something

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captainluffy: either that or one randomly dies accidentally and they just become a townsfolk member or wolf member except that they want to live more badly

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captainluffy: in the case where they side against town, its probably gameover for town right then and there, which is pretty volatile

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huckhuck55: i mean, if i was to play a hag i would be out there being sus AF, to get killed. i think its just a difference of playstyles on who gets the role.

[CrowdfordBot]

huckhuck55:

I don't know where you're getting this forced inactivity thing because it didn't happen at all and never has - no team this game or in others deliberately forewent actions because they were worried it could cause a hag wronging.

and for this, maybe im trying to justify why the game had a lot of inactivity. idk

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shapechange: the game had inactivity, not inaction

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shapechange: every single nightly action was used every night this game

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captainluffy: upon further thinking, i think it might be the opposite, it could provide more discussion because ur trying harder not to random kill than usual

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huckhuck55: i really do like hags, they seem like a really interesting role to me.

but your point jay on them being in much larger games makes a lot more sense. and yeah, 3 hags, agreed

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mctsts: I think the conclusion on this thread is that the game wasn't a great test

[CrowdfordBot]

mctsts: So I think we can close this