Reaper Review S11-1

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alphaviki: Megathread for all ideas for changes, nerfs and the future of the reaper role after game S11-1.

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mctsts: so basically the conclusion from this game is that reaper: 1) gets twice or more the inflicts as FP 2) has a far stronger effect 3) cannot be easily tracked as brought up here <#1180214510305423371>

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mctsts: I feel like #3 would be the easiest one to approach

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alphaviki: My ideas for a reaper nerf:

• tell people they are sleepless
• only make people sleepless with misc power

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mctsts: Changing it back so that not every power turns sleepless is bad I think

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mctsts: it makes role list making so much harder again

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shapechange: true

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alphaviki: Hmm true, havent seen it from that pov

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e_thsn: Give it a scaling cap to how many players are made sleepless a night

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mctsts: your suggested fix for 3) still puts it above FP in power

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e_thsn: Each ability can make a player sleepless but it has a limit to sleeplesses per night

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mctsts: thats kinda weird

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alphaviki: Hmm how about the change that reaper doesn't win if all are sleepless. They just can't touch reaper anymore, but they can still lynch. Isn't as big of a nerf, but feels a bit more organic.

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e_thsn:

Hmm how about the change that reaper doesn't win if all are sleepless. They just can't touch reaper anymore, but they can still lynch. Isn't as big of a nerf, but feels a bit more organic.

that kinda works

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e_thsn: sleepless is just defensive

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venomousbirds: i dont think the tracking is a fun idea

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venomousbirds: putting a cap on sleepless per night seems better

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shapechange:

Hmm how about the change that reaper doesn't win if all are sleepless. They just can't touch reaper anymore, but they can still lynch. Isn't as big of a nerf, but feels a bit more organic.

then what's their wincon...

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alphaviki: Surviving ig, until the last soul is reaped, ae killed

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shapechange: yeah no that makes it basically impossible for them to ever win

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shapechange: reaper can only kill through other killing roles dying and via lynches, basically. so unless there were several T/WK left alive and the reaper had nullified/could nullify basically everyone else's votes using T/WP powers, they're basically guaranteed a loss

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shapechange: that's why apoc horsemen get a kill

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alphaviki: Hmm, technically reaper can kill if people use an ability on them, but Ig once someone dies via reaper, especially if it is mid-night/-day, reaper is kinda confirmed

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alphaviki: An alternative for how many people can be made sleepless / how many abilites can be used could be "Total Number of Players" divided by 10 and rounded. So 0-14 would be 1 and 15-24 would be 2 and so on. I don't know if that would be balanced. Maybe +1 could also be always added to have 0-4^=1; 5-14^=2 and so on, but that feels too close to what we have had this game, so I prefer without the +1.

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mctsts: yea but the limit is just bad

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mctsts: cause it will always remove like half the powers

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alphaviki: I mean, couldn't you just choose which to use like: You have a power-, an invest- and a misc.-ability, you may use two, so you can choose which power goes unused

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shapechange: maybe we just don't give Reaper anything on misc deaths

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shapechange: that would effectively cut its sleeplessing count in half without removing any of its good powers

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captainluffy: and group too?

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shapechange: yeah, non-powered deaths basically

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venomousbirds: sounds good

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e_thsn:

maybe we just don't give Reaper anything on misc deaths

it's just gonna suck on nights after only misc/group deaths

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venomousbirds: sad

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venomousbirds: but solos cant have it well all the time lol

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venomousbirds: they're supposed to be slightly more difficult

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mctsts: makes it much harder to integrate into role lists again

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venomousbirds: i was thinking maybe limit the use based on player amount

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venomousbirds: x players means you can use the ability y times (if y people died, otherwise its less) etc

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venomousbirds: it will still give some freedom of choice

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venomousbirds: if there 12 players, you can use the ability once per night, but you can choose which ones

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venomousbirds: so if theres a invest, power and killing ability possible, you can choose which one you use

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e_thsn:

Each ability can make a player sleepless but it has a limit to sleeplesses per night

Like this

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e_thsn: or just for all abilities

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venomousbirds: yuh

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e_thsn: the reaper can use 1 ability per night for every 10 people (rounded)

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captainluffy: That works tbh

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e_thsn: also for the tracking sleepless people

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e_thsn: we could do like an announcememnt each day of how many are sleepless

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e_thsn: actually we should remove wraith's ability if we think reaper is too strong

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shapechange:

makes it much harder to integrate into role lists again

maybe a little harder, but I don't think it would be too hard - especially since powered roles are more likely to die than misc ones generally