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WerewolvesRevamped / Werewolves-Roles

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Detective Discussion Thread #1325

Closed CrowdfordBot closed 3 months ago

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: S11G3 Detective Discussion Thread

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: alright i think in practice this ends up quite townsided

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: but that may just be in partial lists

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: i feel like detective would be winning team sided

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: they really just want to be with whoever gets reporter

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: more info is generally most helpful for town

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: so it might side with the winning team in late game as you state

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: but I think besides that it favors town

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: anyway my opinion is that i think its far better to have an ua role that actually makes useful deals with the teams besides pity wins

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: I like the concept more than Angel/Despot/RH tbh

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

they really just want to be with whoever gets reporter

pretty much - town tends to get reporter first, even if wolves later get it, so det has incentive to side with town early. could def go wolf-sided later in the game if needed of course

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: it's sort of more like psycho since we gave psycho the investigation

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

anyway my opinion is that i think its far better to have an ua role that actually makes useful deals with the teams besides pity wins

i think in the case of detective, the deals it has to make are very in favour of the team

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: maybe we should give despot and stuff powers they can use to help negociate deals with teams

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: but any info detective gains also helps it

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: it still sort of depends on the team 'rewarding' it for its help (at least in partial lists)

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: id want to see it in a public list really, i think it suits partials awfully

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: yes, but I feel fine with giving invinci a win because he actually helped somewhat significantly

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: angels/rh/despots usually dont really

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: their help usually comes down to voting on one key vote

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn:

it still sort of depends on the team 'rewarding' it for its help (at least in partial lists)

The KW style list was supposed to circumvent this but this game the hosts didn't give one

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i get your point - i just think it would be nice if detective had a way to win via manipulation, etc

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

The KW style list was supposed to circumvent this but this game the hosts didn't give one

i dont really think it does circumvent it though, because partial lists also really affect the way people claim and what they're likely to claim

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: true but if you know a role isn't in game you know someone who claims it is lying at least

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: sure, but i don't think that's relevant to what i'm saying

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: oh yeah nvm

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i think i want to see this in a public list tbh - i think there might be some balancing issues but better to see it in a situation it's more well-suited for first

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: Yeah, makes sense

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: It might have a fairly easy time winning in games where town wins

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i think that will be the case but more testing

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: Conclusion here was to do nothing for now?

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: yes

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: Reopened for post-S11G4 review.

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: while i do think jay played it very well i dont think i like detective <:b_sip:1087497248876806275>

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i dont either

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: it has wayyy too much information and i feel like whichever side it decides to work with wins no matter what

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: like i know jay was a triple quadruple agent whatever but i feel like without doing that it could still win easily siding with whoever the hell it wants

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: i think in theory maybe limiting its role list check could be a good change

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: maybe only 1 or 2 submissions

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

like i know jay was a triple quadruple agent whatever but i feel like without doing that it could still win easily siding with whoever the hell it wants

actually that was the opposite of my problem

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: it can't win on its own merit, essentially, and it can only side with the stronger team

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i actively tried to side with wolves and couldn't

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: <:thinking:1125386874844893315>

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i also wanted to try not side with any teams at the beginning, but there's exactly no benefits and lots of cons to me lying to town

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: i didnt play it so i dont know but why couldnt you? it seemed viable to me to just wait for reporter while working with wolves and win via killing for info and such

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: i do agree there are no benefits to hiding your role from town though

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

sawauh: im not sure how to help that

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

i didnt play it so i dont know but why couldnt you? it seemed viable to me to just wait for reporter while working with wolves and win via killing for info and such

i'd have had to fake my checks to town, which could (and would) have gone wrong super easily, which is the main issue: also, wolves were in an unusually good position this game, it's super rare that they're ever close to getting reporter, let alone knowing most of town trusted

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: detective is also incapable of siding with any solo teams, essentially

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i think the main issues are:

  1. it has to side
  2. it has to side with the stronger team (usually town, could be wolves in some cases)
CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

captainluffy: In general town benefits a lot more from information than wolves