Improve or Remove Cult Acolyte

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WWR Sync: <@578133411110060033>

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shapechange: Unusable in its current form.

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mctsts: Maybe invert it

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mctsts: If it dies, cult can't attak next night

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shapechange: maybe

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relaxedmato: I guess? That kinda just weakens cult even more, you lost a possible CL nad you don't get to kill?

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mctsts: I think it places CA at a similar power level as CM

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mctsts: but CL becomes the role that can play like CM

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relaxedmato: Yeah, it's a good change imo

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relaxedmato: It weakens cult a bit more, but it's a good tradeoff?

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e_thsn: it does then fufil the purpose of preventing cult being useless by random chance

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captainluffy: I always knew it was overpowered from the start. That's why it took ages to be used for the first time

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shapechange:

I always knew it was overpowered from the start. That's why it took ages to be used for the first time

is there a reason you didn't say anything about it being overpowered?

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captainluffy: I think I did

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captainluffy: It's been a while, the role is okd

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shapechange: i can't find anything in either the original thread or the thread made after i suggested its deletion

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captainluffy: I probably used different wording

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shapechange: well, it must have been outside those threads

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captainluffy: Probably

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e_thsn: I did once or twice say it felt a bit strong but thought it would be ok this list, didn't expect all 3 major uai to side with town

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mctsts: <@&1045732542399131769> Cult Acolyte - unusable in current form: ⛔ Delete it 1️⃣ Invert it - if it dies, cult can't attack next night (CL promotion power is kept) ❓ Improve it - in some other way not mentioned her ✅ Keep it - the role is good as is

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captainluffy: first 2 options are fine with me

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captainluffy: current version bad imo

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mctsts: yea

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mctsts: arguments against ⛔ :

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mctsts: <:CultAcolyte:1050135360195276880>

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captainluffy: arguement: the inversion seems like it might work

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shapechange: counter-argument: bit of a swingy role, would only be usable in large games probably?

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mctsts: okay I was trying to make a table of cases to determine how differently a CM/CL vs a CA/CL cult behaves

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mctsts: but its a bit too complex for a table

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mctsts: so ill analyze possible cases with a script

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mctsts: i will look at all combinations of CL/CM and CL/CA dying in Night1-Night7 (or the day after that night)

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mctsts: the fuck

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mctsts: apparently a CLCM pack gets the exact same amount of kills as a CLCA pack

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shapechange: interesting

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mctsts: but CLCM has a higher standard deviation making it more volatile

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shapechange: what if you trim it down to N4?

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mctsts: I forgot to acount for N1 kill getting skip but it shouldnt matter

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mctsts: the list of cases is 6 cases of CL dying N1, then 6 cases of CL dying N2, etc

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mctsts: and for these 6 cases CM/CA goes from N1-6 death

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mctsts: hence the first list of cases just being the same number 6 times in a row always cause CM doesnt do anything

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shapechange: i expected them to have the same amount of kills but i didn't expect CLCM to be more swingy

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shapechange: that seems unintuitive

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mctsts: i expected CLCA to have slightly more kills and be slightly more swingy

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mctsts: but a reasonable amount

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mctsts: N1-N4

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mctsts: ah I think I see a problem

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mctsts: this assumes they must die

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shapechange: i think my problem with CA is that it would basically incentivise CL to claim collect immediately if cult was sensible

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mctsts: very good argument

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mctsts: im convinced