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WerewolvesRevamped / Werewolves-Roles

The role book for Werewolves Revamped
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Devil feels weak #1333

Closed CrowdfordBot closed 2 weeks ago

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

WWR Sync: <@578133411110060033>

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: Like the title says the devil role feels kind of weak, unless town and wolves are severely underpowered then it feels like no one will sell their soul to hell team, which they need to win, there must be some way to make the offers more enticing to sell your soul for them

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: this is at least partially a problem with teams being irrationally scared of selling their souls

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: but it is also partially a problem with info being more valuable early game, especially for town

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: so people are more likely to choose the invest option, which doesn't cost a soul

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: tbh i think an easy solution is just to make it cost your soul

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: Yep

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: but thats a bad deal

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: probably

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

captainluffy: devil still has like the highest winrate of solos

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

captainluffy: so surely not that weak

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i was gonna suggest that you sell half of your soul but idk how that would work

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

devil still has like the highest winrate of solos

it hasn't been doing as well recently

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: in this game we had an example of one team winning overwhelmingly

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: devil relies on the teams being sort of balanced

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i do agree

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: if devil gets a check N1 this can still be useful for its later wager targets

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: cause devil needs to know people from both wolves and town, optimally

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i think i brought up the issue a couple times, actually - one time where wolves were winning overwhelmingly and town were doing badly, once when we were chatting about cerb

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn:

devil still has like the highest winrate of solos

that's cause it's also the most used

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

captainluffy: like we could add more powers to devil to make it stronger but it already has like 3 info boxes worth of powers

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: it's got a lower winrate than most

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

this is at least partially a problem with teams being irrationally scared of selling their souls

like i said i think this is part of the problem - this might be a better area to tackle, but it's harder too

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

captainluffy: i mean why sell soul for protection when u will probably be daykilled immediately after being protectd

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: it has a 14% win rate

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: which seems about right

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: Graveyard has 25% :)

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: thats bad

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

captainluffy: recruitment roles always have high winrates

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: the goal win rate is 11%

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: 1/4 times it won

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

i mean why sell soul for protection when u will probably be daykilled immediately after being protectd

i still think this is a weird conclusion tbh

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: like, it happened once

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: but underworld is high

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: in all seriousness

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: basically if we assume the "default" distribution of 0.5, 0.3, 0.1, 0.1 we have 0.9 aligned players so 0.1/0.9=0.111 so we want an 11% win rate

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

captainluffy: well its just the smart thing to do

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: how?

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: devil gains basically nothing from it

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: we can slightly buff wager protection: once protected you cannot ever be killed by hell

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: this really doesnt do much but does sound useful

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: "why sell your soul for protection of mayor when devil can soul snipe the reporter candidate the next day" would be a better conclusion

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange:

  1. townie doesn't prot and wolves kill them, one person dead, net gain zero souls
  2. townie prots and wolves don't kill them, devil soulkills them, one person dead, net gain zero souls
CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn:

we can slightly buff wager protection: once protected you cannot ever be killed by hell

hell can't kill soulless players

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

e_thsn: then people might sell soul to avoid being soul killed

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: an interesting variant

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: also like that

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

shapechange: i do like that

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: I think thats actually a pretty good idea

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: it also really makes sense

CrowdfordBot commented 3 months ago

mctsts: hell wants everyone dead or soulless