MS Issue

[CrowdfordBot]

Ts: <:MadScientist:989250115850108938> Mad Scientist is kinda bad with how it allows fast claim collection, making the game rather boring. Suggested Fixes: Remove Mad Scientist, Remove Laboratory - only MS will know the targets

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Ts: I'm not very attached to MS, but I feel like removing such an ancient role would be wrong

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Ts: I suggest we do the second option though

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The8thSoul: I agree

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Ts: <@&1045732542399131769>

I suggest we remove the laboratory channel for MS. So only MS will know their targets but there's no way to quickly confirm MS. Fast confirmation leading to claim collection is generally very boring for almost everyone in the game, so it's best we avoid it.

✅ White Check Mark ⛔ No Entry 🤷 Person Shrugging

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Vera but actually a frog: what about a 4p lab >:)

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Vera but actually a frog: i dont think this has been much of an issue before, i think in this game it was mostly because one of the lab targets immediately made himself sus

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Vera but actually a frog: which can be avoided by, like, not doing that

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Ts: Well the same strategy always works unless wolf ctcs MS

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Ts: its just a bit more risky then

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Ts: (but you'll be able to invest targets N1 which reduces the risk)

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Vera but actually a frog: its definitely a strategy but it doesnt mean it works every single time, as it has been tried before and didnt guarantee a town win pretty sure

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Vera but actually a frog: dont ask me what game

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Vera but actually a frog: i have no clue, its just from memory

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Ts: well even if doing it doesn't work that doesn't resolve the issue

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Ts: since the issue is in even trying to do it

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Ts: D0/N1 claim collecting is awful for most people

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Vera but actually a frog: lab only exists after d1 maybe?

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Vera but actually a frog: i think the fact that lab exists is such a core part of the role

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Ts: hm I don't think I'd consider lab existing a core part of the role, but what is kind of relevant is that the targets know they're targets

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Ts: which is pretty much equivalent to a laboratory existing

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Ethan.: Lab does allow non grouped evils to rule someone out but equally allows grouped killers to know who not to target

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Ethan.: For example wolves know that if they kill the other player they become suspicious

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shapechange: lab with whispers but MS can't actually whisper

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shapechange: they can just see the members/know what they talk about

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Ts: I feel like that could still be used for confirmation easily enough

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Captain Luffy: That's still conformable the same way fletcher is

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Captain Luffy: You can't lie abotu what you say because the one town member will be honest

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Captain Luffy: If you send a whisper message and repeat what it said within 1 second, Ur confirmed

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shapechange:

If you send a whisper message and repeat what it said within 1 second, Ur confirmed

???

[CrowdfordBot]

shapechange:

I feel like that could still be used for confirmation easily enough

probably true, but that's the same in any case of the targets knowing they're targets

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Captain Luffy: I mean, if the MS is not in the lab but the others are

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shapechange: luffy what are you talking about

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Captain Luffy: The targets can send a message which you can see and you say what they said fast enough, it confirms

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Ts:

probably true, but that's the same in any case of the targets knowing they're targets

yea I dont think its possible to make it not confirmable without removing the targets having any info

[CrowdfordBot]

Ts: and ultimately I agree with Vera that that's kind of a core part of the role

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shapechange: lab only exists N2 onwards?

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shapechange: and MS can't be killed til then

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Ts: that feels like a very weak fix

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shapechange: yeah

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Captain Luffy: Maybe if both targets die no matter what

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Captain Luffy: It's balanced

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Ts: no

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Captain Luffy: Actually yeah that's still 2 town dead

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huckhuck55: Wild thought. Everyone in the lab starts the game not knowing their role. (Scientists) Then at the end of D1 roles are shown.

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Vera but actually a frog: what

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Vera but actually a frog: that makes like no sense

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huckhuck55: It’s an amnesiac sitch, but in the lab. Meaning, you don’t know how you will side when roles are given and thus you won’t want to confirm anything incase you end up on wolf team.

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Vera but actually a frog: that's pretty bad

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huckhuck55: Don’t take it if it’s dumb, was just a thought.

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Vera but actually a frog: it puts a lot of teams at a disadvantage