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WhatsApp / stickers

This repository contains the iOS and Android sample apps and API for creating third party sticker packs for WhatsApp.
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If everyone can just download "Stickers By Me" app on Android why would anyone feel like making Sticker Packs? #290

Closed enzyme69 closed 5 years ago

enzyme69 commented 6 years ago

Specifications
OS Level: iOS 12.1.1 Device Manifacture: Apple

Stickers Why would anyone make sticker packs, if someone could just steal your works and make "Stickers By Me".

The problem
Concerning "Stickers By Me" on Android

How anyone may be able to reproduce the problem
I have friends sending Stickers via Android and all of them says "Stickers By Me".

What if some users started to make pornographic stickers using "Stickers By Me" would that developer get suspended?

Zandor300 commented 6 years ago

I personally think this is exactly why the WhatsApp team decided to make stickers available by developers making an app for it.

simonzhexu commented 5 years ago

Please share the url that links to the "Stickers By Me" app. WhatsApp is a platform for people to send media, we don't police the copy right of the media, and we can't.

bansicloud commented 5 years ago

Apps:

  1. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.marsvard.stickermakerforwhatsapp
  2. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dstukalov.walocalstoragestickers

Personally received over a DOZEN pornographic stickers, some of which maybe be violating SESTA-FOSTA. Not that surprising given that these apps have over 1M and 10M downloads(in only one month). BTW DMCA and SESTA-FOSTA are related but not the same. SESTA-FOSTA applies to ALL online platforms. These are violation of WhatsApp TOS as this repo also makes clear all apps must adhere to. SESTA-FOSTA does involve civil and criminal penalties for users and platforms wherever they are located in the world. A platform/app cannot simply include a policy statement BTW to brush away liability. They have to take active measures, a combination of human and AI, to prevent these illegal content from being put on the platform BEFORE they are there and not merely after the damage is done.

Long post(as always not intented when I started writing it) since I think that bad actors who indirectly use users to promote their app and "later" clean up are merely pursuing personal gains at the expense of society, the law and the rest of responsible developers. @simonzhexu @Zandor300 @amrit-1901 @marsvard

MarsVard commented 5 years ago

@bansicloud we should just shut down all sharing services where users can share user generated data privately because there is no way of countering that.

Since you know... You dont want WhatsApp to read your messages. The same pornographic material can be an image or a video instead if a sticker.

bansicloud commented 5 years ago

@MarsVard No. There is allocation in the law for moderation. And yes some platforms have shut down or changed their policies: the most famous or pertinent right now is Tumblr after saying for years that they would not moderate pornographic content.

To be clear: I don't make sticker apps just pointing out to a fellow developer that we live in a society and there are laws that we all have to take into account while we pursue our tech. I actually found out about your app because of that feature: I tapped on the sticker and View More brought me to your app. I would highly recommend that you introduce a moderation feature that is not entirely AI based.

The main difference that the law also takes into account is intent: did the platform or app creator know or was made aware of that their program is being used to propagate illicit content. And there is a BIG difference between an image or video or a sticker with no attribution and one where it links back to someone's app and is being used to get more downloads/likes/etc.

I hope other github users find this information useful when considering the approach to take in making sticker apps. If you need to further this discussion, PM me.

MarsVard commented 5 years ago

But the users are not storing anything on my servers or anywhere else thay allows me to moderate + the app even works totally offline. This is like asking Photoshop to have moderation.

In the case of Tumblr the data was on their servers and in ownership of Tumblr making it their responsibility.

And encryption in WhatsApp won't allow WhatsApp to do any moderation as well. And im pretty sure they don't want to either. Imagine whatsapp blocking photos based on the content.

@bansicloud, im just reading this post again i think we may have misunderstood eachother. Just wanted to clarify that the my app does not contain any pornographic material, or anything explicit whatsoever. Im sure that other app doesnt contain anything like thay either. And as a bonus i dont even have a server the app runs locally on your phone. Did i get it right? Or is there some sort of moderation needed for what you do on your phone?

bansicloud commented 5 years ago

@MarsVard First off: I think your concept IS innovative and SHOULD be explored more. After all it is decentralization which is good for the internet(duh!). That being said, I am deeply involved in LegalTech and from that vantage point I can clearly say that there are a lot of issues that would crop up. The worse thing that could happen is that you or anyone else spends all this time and effort creating the best app that they can and then some crusader files a complaint with Google, Apple, WA-FB or worse authorities and you get shut down or in some legal issues.

So here is what I would say: based on a reading of SESTA-FOSTA, since the stickers as of now do link directly to your app or the other developer's app, and that illegal content is being used to "drive" downloads, including but not limited to pornography, copyrighted items under DMCA, etc., the defense that the content does not reside on your servers is not strong. After all, your app is being used as a MEDIUM for the illegal acts. So even if you did remove the link back to your app, people are still using your app to spread illegal content. Think about GDPR and the concept of data controllers and data processors. I am NOT saying that this applies here but merely to point out that there are different levels of liability:

  1. Hosting illegal content,
  2. Promoting illegal content by being a medium,
  3. Gains from illegal content.

As far as the general liability of WA etc, they are a much bigger corp. But even there we know they WILL be regulated: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-06/australia-moves-toward-passing-law-targeting-whatsapp-signal. BTW this is just the tip of the iceberg. I know that in France and Germany, there are similar laws being crafted as we speak.

Again: I think the value that this issue has had is best taken off github since we may be drifting a bit and I dont want to be seen as spamming. I wanted to call your attention and the attention of other developers so that they dont fall into the trap and think about how certain features could be installed to combat these.

I know of a few tech solutions that could be used using open source software. So again, DM me to take this conversation further. I am also engaged in other things so as much as I would love to help you out(look at these LONG posts LOL) I may not be able to. Let us see. I personally do use WA stickers as they help me express a lot of feelings-emotions that are sometimes hard for me to type out.

MarvinJWendt commented 5 years ago

Hey, This Issue seems to be inactive. To keep things organized I will close this for now. If this Issue is still relevant, don't hesitate to drop a comment and I will reopen it if necessary.

Sincerely, Marvin Wendt