[Hunter] Armor pen does not affect Aimed Shot

[crulinjr]

Currently, Here is the Issue I believe I have identified: 1) ArP does not affect Aimed shot Crits. There is an error in the calculation of armor's damage reduction for Aimed Shot Crits.

Currently the damage done by my aimed shot HITS with any level of ArP are more or less what i should expect to observe. However, the difference from what we should expect from our Aimed Shot Crits is about 1K dmg.

See the images I provided in the proof section. for the data to back this up.

Expected behaviour: Tell us what should happen instead

before I do the aimed shot math, lets start with armor/ArP:

DR% = Armor / (Armor + 15,232.5) Effective Armor(post ArP)= Armor-(ArP x Cap) Cap= (10643+(400+85 x 83+4.5 x 85*(83-59)))/3 = 9092.66

merging it all together: DR% = (10643-ArP x 9092.66)/((10643-ArP x 9092.66)+15232.5)

Now, if you have 0% ArP, bosses armor (10643) would reduce your damage by 10643/(10643+15232.5) = 41.11316% this means that when you run the calculation to see what damage you do, you must multiply your pre armor damage by (1-41.11316%) = 58.8864%

Aimed shot damage SHOULD be:

HITS: (12% from barrage, 5% from ranged weapon spec) (avg char sheet damage + 456.5) x 1.12 x 1.05 x (1-DR%) expanding out the armor portion of the equation:

CRITS: (100% from base crit dmg bonus, 30% from mortal shots, 10% from marked for death, plus the above multipliers) (avg char sheet damage + 456.5) x 1.12 x 1.05 x 2 x 1.3 x 1.1 x (1-DR%)

This is the results i got:

Steps to reproduce the problem:

calculate expected damage for aimed shot go to boss target dummy, use aimed shot a bunch to get a sample compare Include proofs for this behaviour

pages used to get the formulas,etc for armor/ArP http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_reduction http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Armor_penetration

As you can see the difference from the expected damage compared to the actual damage Aimed shot Crits does is about 1k since Hunters crit a lot this is a mayor dps loss.

[Ashamedlol]

Dummy is not a reliable testing source when it comes to Armor Penetration, look at what I had when I put on scale+dbw with one aimed, then removed on second as well as one crit without, one with:

Please try it on level 80 NPCs and check your results.

[crulinjr]

If you notice, your Aimed Shot Crits are doing less damage than they should. Maybe its not something about ArP scaling but an issue with the Crits variables but If your Aimed Shot hits are doing 2700-3200 dmg your crit should be doing 7722-9152 dmg

El mié., 26 sept. 2018 0:16, S notifications@github.com escribió:

Dummy is not a reliable testing source when it comes to Armor Penetration, look at what I had when I put on scale+dbw with one aimed, then removed on second as well as one crit without, one with: [image: arp] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/16576459/46058521-2cf5d980-c164-11e8-86c5-70941f842c0d.png

Please try it on level 80 NPCs and check your results.

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[Ashamedlol]

You're miscalculating things, don't forget ranged weapon specialization is already taken into account while calculating your weapon damage and is 3%, not 5%. Crits have a way higher range of min-max damage than normal hits, but how should a 3200 do 9k crit? Lets say I did 3200, my aimed shot average will be 7680 with calcs aka 140% (mine did 8k in the screenshot), and can go below and above that based on weapon damage min/max.

They're doing fine damage for me, please test on normal mobs and tell me your results :p

[crulinjr]

Ranged Weapon Specialization http://www.wow-mania.com/armory/?spell=19509

So what im using is the normal Crit dmg modifier: Normal hit dmg 2 1.3

• 1.1 = Normal hit dmg Crit modifier Mortal Shots modifier Marked for Death modifier 3200 2 1.3 1.1 = 9152

The only thing i did not added is that im using Hunter's Mark which adds 500 atk power and that means it modifies our min - max weapon values by roughly 106.

El mié., 26 sept. 2018 a las 1:12, S (notifications@github.com) escribió:

You're miscalculating things, don't forget ranged weapon specialization is already taken into account while calculating your weapon damage and is 3%, not 5%. Crits have a way higher range of min-max damage than normal hits, but how should a 3200 do 9k crit? Lets say I did 3200, my aimed shot average will be 7680 with calcs (mine did 8k in the screenshot), and can go below and above that based on weapon damage min/max.

They're doing fine damage for me, please test on normal mobs and tell me your results :p

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[Ashamedlol]

It's 3200 * 2.4 (2 + .3 + .1) And yeah, seemed specialization was wrong on my tooltip.

[crulinjr]

Have done some research and the crit multipliers stack multiplicatively not additively. Same goes to the 3% meta gems increased damage. It should go like this: X is hit damage.

x21.03=x2.06=x206% Thats how it works. Since Mortal shots and Marked for Death are separate talents they should stack multiplicatively.

El mié., 26 sept. 2018 a las 5:58, S (notifications@github.com) escribió:

It's 3200 * 2.4 (2 + .4 + .1) And yeah, seemed specialization was wrong on my tooltip.

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[Ashamedlol]

Care to share the research source? Because in this case, most classes have wrong crit modification by what you're saying as well as all the hunter spells benefited by those 2 talents.

[Dranah]

None of you are fully wrong, but neither fully right. Let me clear this up.

Bonuses to your critical damage bonus stack multiplicative with your native critical damage bonus, but additive with each other. (Total critical damage) = (Base ability damage) + (Total critical damage bonus) (Total critical damage bonus) = (Base critical damage bonus) x (1+ talent bonus + talent bonus) For casters, the base crit damage bonus is 50%, for melee/hunter/DK spells it is 100%. Glyph bonuses work the same way as talent bonuses. The Meta gem is a special snowflake as it's not a crit damage bonus-bonus but a raw multiplier to crit damages, stacking multiplicative with everything, and is applied before everything. Meta damage calculates from the total crit damage before the bonuses are applied and then scales up with those bonuses. EJ on meta gem mechanism: http://web.archive.org/web/20130209181158/http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t37804-warrior_fury_compendium/#Impale

For a hunter, the calculation looks like this. No meta, no talents: 100% + 100% = 200% total crit damage Without meta, with talents: 100% + (100% x 140%) = 240% (like Ashamed says) With meta, no talents: (100% + 100% ) x 103% = 206% (like crulin says) With meta, with talents: 100% + (106% x 140% )= 248,4% The meta calculates its 3% off the 200% base critical damage, which is 6% and is considered a damage bonus itself, so it scales up with the talent bonuses.

So with a 3200 non crit, the expected crit damage is 3200 x 2,484 = 7948 damage Matches both your test numbers.

PS: calculating with armor reduction or damage increases from ranged spec talent is completely pointless, those mods apply to the hit and crit damage equally and do not anyhow affect the conversion from hit >crit The only other stat that affects crit/hit ratio is resilience on enemy players as it has an extra reduction for critical strikes

[Dranah]

continued - I made some tests with Aimed shot damage myself and found some anomalies. Note, i'm using average damage numbers with 500-1000 cast tests, instead of a damage-range.

1) Base damage of Aimed shot Depending on gear, talents and other boost effects, the average damage (but also min and max dmg) is always off by 1-2% in either direction, sometimes it's more sometimes it's less. While it holds little to no importance, it causes a general mismatch of calculation vs tests. Example: With no buffs or talents, a naked lvl 80 hunter hits dummy for average 147 auto attack damage. (251 average on weapon sheet, 147 after 41% dummy armor reduction - dummy armor works properly btw) Rank1 Aimed shot adds 5 damage to weapon damage, so expected damage is (251+5)x0,588=150, actual test is 172. Rank2 Aimed shot adds 35 damage, so expected damage is 168, actual test is 189. Rank3 Aimed shot adds 55 damage, so expected damage is 180, actual test is 201. Rank4 Aimed shot adds 90 damage, so expected damage is 200, actual test is 222. Rank5 Aimed shot adds 110 damage, so expected damage is 212, actual test is 234. .... Rank 9 Aimed shot adds 408 damage, so expected damage is 387, actual test is 409

I made this test with a high geared hunter as well and found the damage being a bit lower than expected. Average auto shot attack damage: 1957 on character sheet, expected value on dummy with 100% arpen being 1776. My tests match that. Rank1 Aimed shot should do weapon damage +5, expected damage being average 1780. Test shows 1722. Rank2 Aimed shot expected damage is 1806, actual damage 1747. Rank9 Aimed shot expected damage is 2146, actual damage 2082.

2) Talent scaling It is worth noting that Barrage's 12% boost is already displayed in the tooltip of the spell, its +408 base damage becomes + 456 damage instead. So when calculating, it should be either (weapon damage +408) x 1,12 or (weapon damage) x 1,12 + 456.

As for Ranged Talent Specialization, in this case @crulinjr is correct, it is a 5% boost and it is NOT displayed on your character sheet, neither on the spell tooltip. This damage is added behind the scene. However, currently it does not seem to be applied at all. My auto attack damage did not change from average 147 after taking the talent, when it should be 154 after. For Aimed Shot, with my naked hunter the damage changed from 409 to 458 when picking up 3/3 barrage (correct), however it did not change afterwards when picking up the Ranged Talent specialization, it just didn't add anything. It should have changed to 480, but remained 458. Testing Steady shot, Ranged talent spec properly scales its damage from 282 to 295. Conclusion: Ranged Talent Specialization fails to apply to certain abilities, including Aimed shot. Improved Steady Shot proc properly increases Aimed Shot's total damage by 15%.

3) Critical Damage Bonus Test without talents or meta: Avg Hit - 2082 Avg Crit - 4160 2082 x 2 = 4164 - matches Test with 30% Mortal Shots, no meta: Avg Hit - 2078 Avg Crit - 4782 2078 x 2,3 = 4779 - matches Test with 30% mortal shots and 10% Marked For Death: Avg Hit - 2079 Avg Crit - 4988 2079 x 2,4 = 4989 Test with 30% mortal shots, 10% marked, 3% meta: Avg Hit - 2081 Avg Crit - 5166 2081 x 2,484 = 5169 - matches

So the verdict is: based on test numbers, there is nothing wrong with arpen, critical damage bonus, or the damage of Aimed Shot generally. (devs can't do anything about a 20-30 damage mismatch) Ranged Talent Specialization is broken and i'll open an own thread for it.