Styling adjustment of the dropdown menu in the page header menu

[eveneme]

I suggest changing the display of the dropdown menu; in my opinion, this type of menu looks more modern, aesthetically pleasing, and up-to-date for today’s standards. I believe using borders is unnecessary.

Before:

After:

[dtdesign]

This is currently impossible due to the way the menu is built. It relies on :hover to display the sub menu but this is lost when traversing the gap with the cursor, causing the menu to collapse.

[cadeyrn]

Apart from the technical aspect: I don't agree that such a large gap looks "more modern, aesthetically pleasing". I feel the opposite, it looks like a positioning bug. If anything, I could be convinced by a distance of 1 to 2 pixels, but not much more.

and up-to-date for today’s standards

Who defines this alleged "standard"? When I look at various applications with a modern interface (Firefox, Chrome, PhpStorm, Slack, 1password, awork, and many more), they all have no space at all between menu buttons and menu content.

[dtdesign]

I don’t agree with those large gaps either and would go with smaller values like 2 pixels which creates enough of a visual gap.

PS: @eveneme You might want to stop using phrases like “today’s standards”. It’s not an argument in itself and has the possibility of creating friction without focusing on the actual aspects of your proposals. I actually like a lot of your ideas and I don’t see them needing artificial justifications. Just explaining that the element would no longer stick right to the parent item is enough of an argument! ;-)

[eveneme]

Who defines this alleged "standard"? When I look at various applications with a modern interface (Firefox, Chrome, PhpStorm, Slack, 1password, awork, and many more), they all have no space at all between menu buttons and menu content.

The latest standards in UI/UX design are shaped by a combination of factors, such as technological advancements, market trends, changing user preferences, the influence of major companies and their products, as well as modern components like MUI, Tailwind, and Ant Design. Additionally, organizations focused on technical standards, such as W3C and WCAG, also play a role.

I don’t agree with those large gaps either and would go with smaller values like 2 pixels which creates enough of a visual gap.

PS: @eveneme You might want to stop using phrases like “today’s standards”. It’s not an argument in itself and has the possibility of creating friction without focusing on the actual aspects of your proposals. I actually like a lot of your ideas and I don’t see them needing artificial justifications. Just explaining that the element would no longer stick right to the parent item is enough of an argument! ;-)

I understand. However, the WoltLab community is conservative and will always find fault with something, arguing "I just don't like changes," like the person above.

s like a positioning bug. If anything, I could be convinced by a distance of 1 to 2 pixels, but not much more.

1-2px doesn't change anything here...

[cadeyrn]

The latest standards in UI/UX design are shaped by a combination of factors, such as technological advancements, market trends, changing user preferences, the influence of major companies and their products, as well as modern components like MUI, Tailwind, and Ant Design. Additionally, organizations focused on technical standards, such as W3C and WCAG, also play a role.

That was, as was not difficult to recognize, a rhetorical question. There is no "standard" that defines if there should be a gap or how large it should be. In all of your suggestions, you merely make claims that it would be standard what you personally like best. I gave you a lot of examples for modern applications that disagree with you. And no, W3C and WCAG have nothing to do with this kind of question at all. That's a design choice. There is also no general a11y aspect, because accessibility depends on the specific implementation.

However, the WoltLab community is conservative and will always find fault with something, arguing "I just don't like changes," like the person above.

I already told you in the forum to stop spreading lies about other people just because they don't share your personal opinons! I really hope that if your behavior doesn't stop, there will be consequences for you. Your behavior is so toxic and destroys not only any serious discussion but also brings a lot of bad vibes into the WoltLab community …

As I already told you more than once: I am not conservative at all and I am even very open for changes, both of your claims are lies. Just stop your lies! I simply do not agree with a lot of your suggestions - and especially not with your reasons, which rarely have arguments, but sound like this in a lot of your topics: "I am the largest UI/UX expert, there is only one truth in the world and anyone who has other opinions is conservative and fundamentally against all changes."

There is a really important difference between us: You will never read from me that everyone has to see things the way I do. I even accept your opinion (with your personal attacks on my person, you are forcing me to defend myself; don't confuse it with not accepting that you have a different opinion). If I have a different opinion, I give reasons - as I did here. For me, it's that simple: You have one opinion, I have one opinion. Both opinions have exactly the same value. Just as my opinion is no more important than yours, your opinion is no more important than mine. And no, you're not as much of a UI expert as you make yourself, and you don't have an opinion that's worth more than anyone else's opinion. You're just one member of the community. That's it. Accept your role.

1-2px doesn't change anything here...

One more time, I disagree with you. For me, it makes a very noticeable difference for the design. I don't think that it's necessary to make this change, but it makes a difference and it can sense to me from a design POV (the technical side is another story). But such a huge gap, as you suggested, again: to me, that looks like a bug in the positioning and is neither "more modern" nor "aesthetically pleasing".

Feel free to disagree with me, but once again: Just two different opinions, nothing more.

[eveneme]

A spacing greater than 1-2 pixels is not a mistake, so stop writing nonsense. Consequences? Is that a threat? Does it bother you that someone has come up with new suggestions for design changes because you wrote on the forum that you don't like changes? Please don’t spam my suggestions or write monologues that are off-topic. You expressed your opinion in the first post, and that’s enough.

The WoltLab community is largely conservative, and I’ve heard this from both an important person involved in the project and many people on the forum who have also encountered a wave of conservatives. Nowhere did I claim to be an expert; I simply stated that I work in this field in response to comments like "I just don’t like changes."

When it comes to UI/UX, specialists should have more say, developers when it comes to programming, and then the community. The community is there to provide feedback, not to steer the project. I believe in the WoltLab team and know they will move in the right direction regarding UI/UX for the better.

I understand that conservatives would prefer the software to age along with them.

[cadeyrn]

A spacing greater than 1-2 pixels is not a mistake, so stop writing nonsense

I didn't write that it's a „mistake“. Once again, you're saying things that aren't true (and that's what I would call "nonsense"). I explained why I disagree with your claim that it looks "looks more modern, aesthetically pleasing". It's only your opinion, I have a different opinion. For me, it doesn't look more modern and also not aesthetically pleasing. For me it gives the feeling that something is wrongly positioned. You have to accept that other people may have different opinions. If you can't, then you shouldn't participate in public discussions.

Consequences? Is that a threat?

How could i threaten you? I don't have the power to do anything against your behavior at all. Your question makes zero sense. I wrote that I hope your toxic behavior has consequences and that you won't be allowed to go on indefinitely attacking everyone who doesn't share your opinions.

Does it bother you that someone has come up with new suggestions for design changes because you wrote on the forum that you don't like changes

This is your next lie. I never wrote that I don't like changes, not even something similar. On the contrary, I even wrote several times that I am generally open to new ideas. I just don't think most of your ideas are as good as you think they are. And if I disagree, I always give reaons, also called arguments. You don't contribute any arguments. All you ever say is that it's standard, it's modern, it has to be that way, everything else is wrong. This can be seen in all your topics in which someone (and that's often enough not just me!) disagrees with you.

Please don’t spam my suggestions or write monologues that are off-topic.

My comments weren't off-topic at all. I explained why I disagree with your proposal, and I have defended myself against your false claims. Also, it's not a monologue if I answer to your comments. This statement also makes no sense.

You expressed your opinion in the first post, and that’s enough.

And you expressed your opinion in your first post. So what? Do you want me to keep my mouth shut because I don't share your opinion, while you continue to try to defame me here with false allegations?

and I’ve heard this from both an important person involved in the project and many people

Yeah, that's easy to say as nobody can check it. But I know this behavior all too well from other people who can't contribute anything argumentatively. It's almost a standard claim that almost never is true. And in the context of all your other lies, such a claim from you is unfortunately not credible.

Nowhere did I claim to be an expert

And another lie. You have repeatedly emphasized in the forum that you have been working in this field for so long and therefore know so much about it - making it unmistakably clear that your opinion is worth more than everyone else's opinion.

I simply stated that I work in this field in response to comments like "I just don’t like changes."

Nobody said that, especially not here. So you are off-topic.

When it comes to UI/UX, specialists should have more say, developers when it comes to programming, and then the community.

I totally disagree. Nothing is more important than the real users of the software, even not the "specialists" who can only argue with theory but don't know the community and their requirements. I am not at all against expert opinions, quite the opposite. As an additional feedback channel, not as an opinion that stands above all others.

And again: You're also just one member of the community. So even if experts had more to say (which I don't subscribe to), it's completely irrelevant to your proposal because you're not representing an expert opinion, just your personal view. Again: Accept your role.

The community is there to provide feedback, not to steer the project.

You are repeating here 1:1 what you wrote in the forum and have already answered there. And again: nobody said that the community should “steer” anything. And external people can't do that either. This platform is about feedback. And the feedback from the real users is really, really important for every project.

I understand that conservatives would prefer the software to age along with them.

Again: This is not about "conservatives" at all. This is all about one single proposal. And I disagree. So how about you stop being "off-topic" and "writing nonsense" (that's your choice of words!)?

[eveneme]

Yeah, that's easy to say as nobody can check it. But I know this behavior all too well from other people who can't contribute anything argumentatively. It's almost a standard claim that almost never is true. And in the context of all your other lies, such a claim from you is unfortunately not credible.

UPS :) I won't write who said this, because that's not the point, but it's a person who is very important to this project. Since they agree with me, it seems that this is not a lie after all. People open to change are open to changes and sensible discussions, not just writing arguments like "I just don't like change." I'm not talking only about you, but about many people on the WoltLab forum. Unfortunately, this will not discourage me from adding my suggestions. If WoltLab considers some of my suggestions valid, as is already happening, they will be implemented. You have the right to disagree with many things, just like everyone else, but it would be good to argue your statements. As I said on the forum, I base my opinions on experience, not personal "preferences" like most conservatives on the forum, who stick to what's comfortable and familiar and are closed to change. And it's clear that something is bothering you because you're involved in almost every one of my suggestions.