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WordPress / browsehappy

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removed "Windows" from Safari description #3

Closed jlbruno closed 4 years ago

jlbruno commented 12 years ago

Apple no longer offers a download for Safari on Windows

nacin commented 12 years ago

These descriptions were taken from the manufacturers themselves. They were put in quotes to try to establish they were not written in our own voice.

MichaelTunnell commented 11 years ago

"They were put in quotes to try to establish they were not written in our own voice."...your comment is irrelevant. We are not talking about the description, we are saying it shouldn't be there AT ALL. Safari comes default on OSX...it is NOT AVAILABLE for Windows since version 5 (windows version has been deprecated) therefore it shouldn't even be on the page.

Krinkle commented 11 years ago

I agree with @Visuex. It seems however that @WordPress is unwilling change the descriptions but instead wants the vendors to provide it for them (legal reasons?).

As long as they're considered citations, then that makes sense but right now the information is simply misleading, outdated and inaccurate. I believe that for most people this looks bad on wordpress/browsehappy not on Apple because you are displaying the old information.

I'm not sure where the current text comes from. If you got it originally by contacting Apple I presume you've contacted them again to ask them for a new version but they simply haven't answered? In that case I'd say it's time to do it yourself and quote them from their website.

If it was originally snagged from Apple's website as well, what's stopping from doing just that? They've updated their site long ago (ever since there is no longer a Windows version).

From https://www.apple.com/safari/what-is.html:

It’s the best way to read on the web. It works with iCloud across your Mac, iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch. It’s a web browser that’s so innovative, you’ll do much more than just browse.

nacin commented 11 years ago

My comment was only responding to "but not sure where that marketing came from...". I was not objecting to the PR. Not unwilling to change things, I just lost track of this issue.

jlbruno commented 11 years ago

Ok...now that you've been reminded, what's the next step?

MichaelTunnell commented 11 years ago

I wasn't criticizing your comment...you had a valid point that they probably didn't want it to seem like they were reviewing anything...what I was saying is that though your point is valid it is also irrelevant.

Safari: OSX Only, Default for OSX = No One needs to download it because it is already there on their machine as well as only available on those machines.

The verbiage is irrelevant because the browser shouldn't even be on the site. In fact, the only reason I found this thread is because the BrowseHappy twitter account directed me here...which means they are aware of this issue but don't care.

There inability to do something so incredibly simple and easy is just annoying and stupid...makes me want to just make a fork of it so people can have up to date information.

nacin commented 11 years ago

I'm working on it today. This site is translated into 34 languages, so changing a string actually takes a bit of work. I do care. (The browsehappy Twitter account is unofficial and I believe operated by someone else, I believe @Krinkle.)

Browse Happy is about raising awareness of the available browsers. The site doesn't have download buttons. It links people to websites for more information about the different options. The original site was to shift people from Internet Explorer to better options — Opera, Safari, Firefox, and Mozilla (obviously, this predated Chrome). Now, it highlights the five most popular browsers that, in their latest versions, support modern web standards. It is used in a number of prominent areas. H5BP links to Browse Happy for old IE versions. The WordPress dashboard links to Browse Happy whenever a user is running an out-of-date browser.

Separately, and this was brought up in #1, it is probably true that for non-Apple devices, Safari should be grayed out. Likewise, IE for non-Windows devices. I have asked the site's designer to play with some options here.

MichaelTunnell commented 11 years ago

@nacin, I am not sure where I went wrong with explaining the irrelevance of Safari but I will try again.

Internet Explorer is available for Windows & OSX so being available for non-Windows users is fine...and the only reason this site even needs to exist is thanks to IE. So there is no reason to grey it out.

Safari is ONLY available on OSX and it has auto-update...and this auto-update has existed at least since 2008.

There is not a single scenario where a link to Safari needs to exist.

Example #1: A IE8 Windows user is directed to this site...Firefox, Chrome, Opera, IE (updated) are all viable options to them. IE doesn't support Auto-Update until IE10 (and can be turned off in Windows Update) so IE needs to be an option. Safari 6 CAN NOT be downloaded and installed for this user because Apple deprecated Safari for Windows almost a year ago.

Example #2: A Linux user...enough said...Safari never existed for Linux..or BSD or Solaris or anything else.

Example #3: A Mac user on OSX Lion or Mountain Lion has an outdated version of Safari...Safari Auto-Updates itself to make it up to date.

Example #4: A Mac user on OSX Snow Leopard, or older, has an outdated version of Safari. Sucks for them because Safari 6 is ONLY available for Lion or Mountain Lion.

These are the only scenarios that can exist...all of them deem the link to Safari unnecessary and confusing! People who don't understand the world of internet browsers will have no chance in understanding that Safari is not available to them when THIS SITE SAYS it is....because, it's not.

"This site is translated into 34 languages, so changing a string actually takes a bit of work." - I was not aware this site was translated into so many languages...that is cool and well done...BUT that is still IRRELEVANT. I am not suggesting that the verbiage be changed...I am suggesting that Safari should be DELETED from the site because no one can use it except the people who already are.

"Browse Happy is about raising awareness of the available browsers." - EXACTLY! Safari is NOT an available browser to anyone but Mountain Lion and Lion users...they already have it...and it is always up to date.

"(The browsehappy Twitter account is unofficial and I believe operated by someone else, I believe @Krinkle.)" that is weird but alright.

@nacin now when it comes to the other browsers, Firefox, Chrome, etc, then yes the verbiage is relevant and using vendor text is probably a good idea however instead I would suggest using a quote from a reviewer or a technology site like Mashable, Lifehacker or something like that.

That way @WordPress can stay removed from the text but not use the over-hyped commercialized text that the vendors would provide.

MichaelTunnell commented 11 years ago

Ok this is ridiculous...you are still giving a link to Safari when Safari ONLY for OSX and is DEFAULT for OSX...it is completely unnecessary to link to something that can only work on one system and is default for that system.

In fact more importantly..the site still says "and Windows" when Safari hasn't worked on WIndows in almost a year.

You guys are just creating confusion with a disguise of helpfulness.

jlbruno commented 11 years ago

Yeah the fact that this is still here makes the whole site a completely irrelevant resource.

MichaelTunnell commented 11 years ago

I wouldn't go as far as irrelevant, potential for irrelevance but certainly confusing...though not sure why IE is even there because how can anyone be "happy" with IE? :)

jlbruno commented 11 years ago

It's irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Would you send anyone who needed this type of info to this website when the information on it is incorrect? I wouldn't.

Although it looks as though the site has now been updated, but without the codebase here on github being updated.

MichaelTunnell commented 11 years ago

I wouldn't send anyone to it either so you have a point. I still won't though because Safari is an irrelevant link...you can only use it on OSX and OSX Users already have it. Doesn't make sense to link it.

They have finally taken Windows off of Safari BUT they did it in the last 3 hours because I checked the site before I posted that earlier today.

jlbruno commented 11 years ago

@nacin So what's happening here? Are you still maintaining site code in this repo? The wording on the site was updated 2 months ago, but is not reflected here.