Update the “Edit site” admin bar control to open the Site Editor at the top-level, consistently

[richtabor]

Currently the "Edit site" control in the Admin Bar brings you directly to the associated template you’re viewing, within the template editing view.

Instead, I propose that this "Edit site" control should always open the Site Editor at the top level, just like the "Editor" control does within the WP Admin > Appearance menu—rather than on the template view of whichever page you're on.

Why?

The current experiences is disorienting as-is, dropping you into various levels of the Site Editor. This behavior makes the control loose its effectiveness as an entry point to the Site Editor, making it unpredictable where you will actually land.

For higher-level control like editing a specific template you're viewing on the front-end, I'd expect perhaps Create Block Theme could add a toolbar control to do so.

Most people just want to edit their site, and starting from one consistent point is a clear way to reduce the heaviness of navigating the site editing experience.

Visual

This "Edit site" link...

...to always open here:

[richtabor]

This would also close https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/63784, as the homepage is the page assigned to the top-level of the Site Editor (naturally).

[Mamaduka]

The proposal to revert #37850 in the #outreach channel might be worth sharing.

[ndiego]

In theory, I like the current implementation. I know how the Site Editor works through and through, so when I click on "Edit Site", I know what to expect. That said, if you are a newer user or not familiar with the Site Editor, it can be extremely disorienting. It immediately assumes you understand what templates are and how they are composed. So, I agree with the approach outlined above. It improves consistency as well as the new user experience.

As a side note, it would be cool if the Edit Page button opened the page/post/whatever you are viewing in the Site Editor with the correct template applied, but there is still a lot of Editor unification work needed before this is possible.

[bph]

@WordPress/outreach What do you think about this modification?

[markhowellsmead]

I agree that the current implementation could be confusing for many users: in fact, several of my clients continually misunderstand this link and think that they need to use it to edit the current page. (Particularly because “Edit site” and “Edit page” are translated almost identically in German.) When I work on sites, it's a huge advantage to use this link to jump directly into the relevant view within the Site Editor, but it might make the path for less-experienced users more easy to understand.

[bph]

I would like Edit Site with goes to the Site editor loading the homepage, if there were also a link to "edit template". As a site owner or theme builder, I would edit more often any the particular template rather the home page over and over.

During the process of creating, I would navigate the site on the front end and then see something on that particular page, I would like to change. So I click on the "Edit template" button and come to the template.

In that scenario, I would be quite annoyed if I had to get to the site editor and then Templates, scroll through the template and then edit it.

So if it were to moved back to go to the Site editor > Homepage. The confusion comes from the disconnect strongly agree but as a theme builder, I would appreciate an Edit Template link off the top of the Admin bar.

[sethrubenstein]

I also agree that the current implementation can be confusing, specifically around naming. For that reason we modify the admin toolbar and rename this explicitly to "Edit Template", our users understood this better than "Edit Site" as its a more clear what the admin bar control does.

That said, I would hate to lose existing functionality that we use day in and day out at this point. Making this only open the site editor without any template context without something else in place to replace that lost functionality would not be ideal.

[bacoords]

I wrote about this 2 years ago and even wrote a small hacky plugin to get what I wanted. I think this UI is solved by other builders by making the 'Edit Site' button is a dropdown. Clicking it should go to the homepage of the site editor, but the dropdown gives you a quick reference to jump to the current template and any visible template parts, so it'd look like this:

• Edit Site
  • Edit Header
  • Edit Archive
  • Edit Footer

I'd also be in favor of combining it with the 'Edit Post' link, the two "Edit" links is a weird experience.

Here's the original post: https://www.briancoords.com/writing-a-tiny-full-site-editing-plugin/

[andreawetzel]

Most people just want to edit their site, and starting from one consistent point is a clear way to reduce the heaviness of navigating the site editing experience.

I agree with this.

Also, I often accidentally click on "Edit site" when I intend to click on "Edit page" and so it takes me a few extra seconds to realize that I've landed on the template edit screen rather than the page edit screen. If I clicked on Edit site and landed on the top level of the site editor, I think it would relieve some mental load and offer a clear path to get to the page I wish to edit.

[richtabor]

When I work on sites, it's a huge advantage to use this link to jump directly into the relevant view within the Site Editor, but it might make the path for less-experienced users more easy to understand.

That said, I would hate to lose existing functionality that we use day in and day out at this point. Making this only open the site editor without any template context without something else in place to replace that lost functionality would not be ideal.

Do you use Create Block Theme? It could add a "Edit template" item to the toolbar, to get you directly to that template.

[richtabor]

As a side note, it would be cool if the Edit Page button opened the page/post/whatever you are viewing in the Site Editor with the correct template applied, but there is still a lot of Editor unification work needed before this is possible

I'd also be in favor of combining it with the 'Edit Post' link, the two "Edit" links is a weird experience.

Agreed, but not yet.

This could be an interesting experiment (or plugin), but I do think we're a while off from a true 1:1 expectation wise between navigating the Site Editor and to/from posts and admin.

[colorful-tones]

I have zero expectations around orientation when I click 'Edit Site' or 'Go to Dashboard' (the top leftmost site icon in the Site Editor). I have not allowed myself the mindset to build any muscle memory in any of these experiences over the years because of the changes like this. I wouldn't say I like arguing for no change, but it worries me. 😢

While it makes sense now to change the Edit Site, just as much as it did to do it back in 2022, I worry that it'll be revisited in a year or two when the admin redesign gets further along. If so, then there is a risk of causing a lack of trust or perception of the quality of the project for everyday users. Risk and change is hard. I'd like to know how the priority of these particular changes sets in the bigger scheme of things and whether we're considering that. What is the urgency? Is there urgency? 🤔

[richtabor]

I have not allowed myself the mindset to build any muscle memory in any of these experiences

Because it's been unpredictable—not because of a push for consistency.

I'd like to know how the priority of these particular changes sets in the bigger scheme of things and whether we're considering that. What is the urgency? Is there urgency?

I'm trying to make the WordPress experience more predicable and intuitive. The urgency is that there is an inconsistent experience that makes WordPress feel hard. Sure, if one understands templates and knows that "Edit site" means to edit the current template, like "Edit page" does—then you choose it.

Otherwise, the thinking is that you can edit your site. You press it and you're instantly lost. You don't recognize the current view. Is it the editor? It looks like it, but there's no content, just a message saying that's where content will go (the template state of the post content block).

These sort of seemingly tiny details add up quickly, making WordPress feel like the wrong choice. But if we push to meet expectations, it will feel like the right.

[luminuu]

I like the idea of @bacoords with submenu items, an alternative suggestion could be:

• Edit site
  • Navigation
  • Styles
  • Templates
  • Patterns

Kind of mimicking what items you have on the first page of the site editor. I've left out the Pages intentionally, as I think this should belong to a menu item specific for content like "Edit page"/"Edit post" is today.

[colorful-tones]

Because it's been unpredictable—not because of a push for consistency.

It would be wonderful to hear more about the historical differences here and whether they align with the community's perspective or that of the individual.

I'm trying to make the WordPress experience more predictable and intuitive. The urgency is that there is an inconsistent experience that makes WordPress feel hard.

I worry that the "I" is emphasized, not the "we". So, the question of urgency should be proposed to the larger group and conversation around this small detail and request. Is there urgency, and will the impact of changing this small detail today outweigh the risk of needing a holistic overview of where the admin bar will exist in one year? Two years? 🤔

It might be beneficial to remind folks of the WordPress Philosophy and Etiquette, which is always good to revisit from time to time.

It could be beneficial to see some designs and discuss what and whether the Admin Bar will look like in 6 months to 1 year.

[ndiego]

I worry that the "I" is emphasized, not the "we". So, the question of urgency should be proposed to the larger group and conversation around this small detail and request.

Rich is operating in good faith and is just trying to improve the editing experience in WordPress, just like we all are. The Admin Bar will undoubtedly see changes in the future, but I don't think we should be afraid to make incremental improvements to enhance the experience today, even though we know a more optimal "complete" solution may come down the line.

[richtabor]

It could be beneficial to see some designs and discuss what and whether the Admin Bar will look like in 6 months to 1 year.

I'm not aware of plans to drastically change the admin bar. I want to take what we have today and remove friction, as is my typical approach to WordPress experience.

align with the community's perspective or that of the individual.

I would hope the community, like myself, wants the WordPress experience to be more intuitive. :)

I have no motives other than making WordPress a little better every day.

[annezazu]

Instead, I propose that this "Edit site" control should always open the Site Editor at the top level, just like the "Editor" control does within the WP Admin > Appearance menu—rather than on the template view of whichever page you're on.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet beyond sharing the issue number so I just want to bring some historical context to this thread in greater detail. Changing this would bring it back to the original implementation which was causing real confusion with users who expected that Edit site would bring them to what they were looking at. There's more feedback on the prior noted issue https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/37850. This helped save folks from wading through the maze of templates to understand where they might want to edit something. Since it's landed, I haven't seen user feedback come in asking for a revert.

[bacoords]

The "Edit Site link as a dropdown" idea and variations of it have been mentioned by multiple people in both threads but hasn't received any recognition or response from any one on the editor team. Would love honest feedback on the idea and why it's not seen as a viable option.

References

• https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/63785#issuecomment-2252763826
• https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/63785#issuecomment-2250348987
• https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/37850#issuecomment-1208422060
• https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/37850#issuecomment-1221115551
• https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/37850#issuecomment-1592642377 and so on.

[colorful-tones]

Rich is operating in good faith and is just trying to improve the editing experience in WordPress, just like we all are.

I do not believe I implied that he was not operating in good faith. However, explicitly calling this out shudders me to think that it is implied that I am not acting in good faith in trying to have a transparent and diplomatic dialogue with the project community. 🤔

just like we all are.

Yes, always assume positive intent. 🫶

I'm not aware of plans to drastically change the admin bar.

Neither am I. Thanks for clarifying.

I want to take what we have today and remove friction, as is my typical approach to WordPress experience.

Wonderful! But how critical are these changes in the larger scheme of things? How certain are we that this change will not confuse everyday users, which would elevate the risk of introducing these changes? How do we assess and assign risk as a community towards seemingly minor changes but with the potential to have a huge impact (on 43% of the web) today, and tomorrow?

I have no motives other than making WordPress a little better every day.

I'm not questioning motives. I want to know how critical or urgent this overall change is in relation to many other crucial items.

Things like making WordPress "better" or "intuitive" are subjective. Ultimately, I'm grateful we're all here aiming for the same general goals.

I would assess this as medium (to high) risk with the potential to impact end user's trust in the user experience. With the 'Edit Site' link currently pointing to the current template in the Site Editor since 2022 - we risk confusing user expectations by introducing a change to point them to the Site Editor root. It may be more intuitive, but the risk outweighs the value. Overall, it would be ideal to focus on continuing to stabilize the Site Editor (a la Data Views). It would be wonderful to see us rally around #63128, #59745, #62371, #63255

The "Edit Site link as a dropdown" idea and variations of it have been mentioned by multiple people

This idea does seem to have some momentum and may be a potential solution.

[richtabor]

Since it's landed, I haven't seen user feedback come in asking for a revert.

I don't think we'll see users asking to change the "Edit site" button. We'll see complaints about how navigating to/from/within the Site Editor is confusing and difficult.

Think if the "Customize" button in the Admin Bar opened in the different views depending on the page you were on. Not just different views, but different views that didn't look like your pages—wireframes (confusing wireframes) of your pages. That's what we have today with the "Edit site" admin link, at least my take.

[richtabor]

The "Edit Site link as a dropdown" idea and variations of it have been mentioned by multiple people in both threads but hasn't received any recognition or response from any one on the editor team. Would love honest feedback on the idea and why it's not seen as a viable option.

@bacoords I only saw @luminuu's comment above a bit ago today and am thinking on it. It's viable if we do what I'm suggesting here, otherwise likely more confusing to have an "Edit site" button that takes you multiple places, with a dropdown that also takes you multiple places.

[richtabor]

As-if, if folks do not want to make this a direct link to the Site Editor (similar to the previous "Customize" link on classic themes), it should be renamed to "Edit template"—to better articulate what it's for.

Although, it's then touching on the confusion of template vs. content — especially when some templates are content.

[bacoords]

It's viable if we do what I'm suggesting here, otherwise likely more confusing to have an "Edit site" button that takes you multiple places, with a dropdown that also takes you multiple places.

Yeah there's more conversation needed, but I think my personal preference would be something like:

• Site Editor (the homepage of the site editor, original functionality)
  • Edit Header
  • Edit {Template} (dynamic to whatever template you're on, the current functionality)
  • Edit Footer

The two separate "Edit..." links in the admin bar feel "wrong", but by changing it to "Site Editor" it's similar to the way we used to have "Customize" to send you to the Customizer. That said I can see that I'm changing the language used from an action/verb to a destination/noun.

[richtabor]

Site Editor (the homepage of the site editor, original functionality) Edit Header Edit {Template} (dynamic to whatever template you're on, the current functionality) Edit Footer

The two separate "Edit..." links in the admin bar feel "wrong", but by changing it to "Site Editor" it's similar to the way we used to have "Customize" to send you to the Customizer. That said I can see that I'm changing the language used from an action/verb to a destination/noun.

Agreed. I think there's something here.

[carolinan]

I am one of the people who pushed for the link to point to the current template, and I do use it all the time, like literally every few minutes while I am working on themes or testing PR's. But I can second that I have had conversations with users -not theme designers and developers - who found this confusing, and having needed to explain why the link opens to different places, and how to get the sidebar to show again (the menu with the dark background).

I would prefer the dropdown idea, with a small exception. I don't think the term "Site Editor" should be the link text. Because one of the long term goals is to have one editor. Should the top level link be the same as the Appearance > Editor?

[carolinan]

There is an option to use the WP_DEVELOPMENT_MODE constant to determine where the links should go: But since every user will have different needs, at that point, the developer may just as well add a must use plugin that adds their personal links to the bar.

Edit: Or maybe it should be under user preferences? I am only half joking.

[paaljoachim]

Brain storming....

Navigating through a site while logged in I am used to the experience of having useful items in the top black admin toolbar giving me the opportunity to do various useful things. The W top left I never use and really do not know why it is there. Seeing the site title drop with Dashboard, Plugins Themes can also contain a link to the top level area of the Editor.

Edit site link. Which creates the expectation that this is similar to Edit Page / Edit Post that it would naturally go to the template being used for the page/post I was currently on. This was fixed and I am very happy for that. If current page is a post then clicking Edit site the link goes to the Single Posts template. If it is the front page then clicking the Edit site link goes to the Front pages template if one is used. If on a Shop WooCommerce page clicking Edit site link goes to the Product Catalog template.

The Edit site link has become very similar to the Edit Page / Edit Post link and that makes me very happy.

[JosVelasco]

I would love a description before clicking the Edit Site link. When hovering the element, a text could say, "Customize the appearance of this template using the block editor."

This could extend to other links. Adding more descriptions to other elements could help people understand old concepts, like the difference between a post and a page, even before clicking "New and selecting page or post."

[unscripted]

My two cents: We've had a few clients and non-dev team members get the "Edit site" and "Edit page/post" buttons confused. There are definitely merits to the current, proposed (old) and dropdown methods.

I'm heavily editing styles and patterns in the early part of a project. It would be awesome if the button opened the site-editor.php instead of the Blog Home template.

Once the initial styles are established, my focus shifts to working on templates, and I very rarely need to return to the styles editor. In this scenario, we've heard feedback that "edit site" and "edit page/post" aren't differentiated enough.

I love the idea of the dropdown @bacoords shared, as it works for all project phases: setup, build and maintain.

If we don't implement a dropdown, I think changing the button label to "Edit template" becomes more descriptive and accurate.

If neither of these changes is made, I recommend keeping the templates as is. Our team ultimately spends more time on templates once the initial style setup is complete.

We also desperately try to keep our clients out of the style editor, so nothing to make that easier. 😅

[jorgefilipecosta]

Site Editor (the homepage of the site editor, original functionality) Edit Header Edit {Template} (dynamic to whatever template you're on, the current functionality) Edit Footer

The two separate "Edit..." links in the admin bar feel "wrong", but by changing it to "Site Editor" it's similar to the way we used to have "Customize" to send you to the Customizer. That said I can see that I'm changing the language used from an action/verb to a destination/noun.

Agreed. I think there's something here.

Hi @richtabor, to clarify do you think we should explore this dropdown menu option instead of not having a dropdown and the button simply going to the homepage of the site editor? Or as a first step, we have a single button and we just make it link to the homepage of the site editor?

[richtabor]

I am one of the people who pushed for the link to point to the current template, and I do use it all the time, like literally every few minutes while I am working on themes or testing PR's.

What's clear though is that folks not building themes or testing PRs are struggling to grasp what this is. Instead of editing their site (which is easily confused with "editing what I'm looking at"), people land in the template view of their current page, with what looks like a broken version of their site (post content block vs. page contents).

Hi @richtabor, to clarify do you think we should explore this dropdown menu option instead of not having a dropdown and the button simply going to the homepage of the site editor? Or as a first step, we have a single button and we just make it link to the homepage of the site editor?

Single button for sure, perhaps the dropdown like as proposed above, though how would the admin bar know about the header and footer template parts on the page? (copy to be determined).

[carolinan]

What's clear though is that folks not building themes or testing PRs are struggling

Yes I agree, that is what I was trying to convey, had you quoted the entire paragraph.

There is also an issue and pull request already opened for this on Trac: https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/62368 which could be used as the "backport".

[ptesei]

Thank you @carolinan for bringing light to my issue!

I propose renaming the label to avoid confusion, as we tend to click on the first "edit" we encounter. Additionally, I suggest displaying it consistently across all pages, including admin and multisite admin. (I've tested this on a multisite setup, and the rules implemented by #62501 aren't functioning as intended. btw)

We're living in this strange period where two UIs coexist... I think it's okay to gradually introduce changes.

Reading all your comments has given me an epiphany. Since the data view is already called "Design"... why not change the label to "Design"? It's such a beautiful and universal word!