Closed onlyjob closed 9 years ago
x2zulu
commented
9 years ago Thanks yes, we have removed most of these images in a future release.
What is your relation to Debian? Can you provide more detail on your Debian credentials?
Looks like you work for Odoo CRM/ERP.
onlyjob
commented
9 years ago On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 14:07:06 John Roberts wrote:
Yes, we have removed most of these images in a future release.
Thanks, but I'm not sure if removing "most of those images" would be sufficient. How about removing all of them?
What is your relation to Debian?
I am a Debian Developer.
Looks like you work for Odoo CRM/ERP.
No, I was just working on prospective packaging of Odoo for Debian. I did not sign their CLA etc. I was merely forwarding problems I've happened to notice... Same as with X2Engine.
Can you provide more detail on your Debian credentials.
Why? Our development is public, we do not hide anything. You can find all my activity online.
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
P.S. As you can imagine I'm not quite happy about removing my bug reports without a trace... What's wrong with having a public bug tracker on GitHub? The more difficult you make it to communicate the less likely a potential contributor would try to help...
Our difficulties and our dangers will not be removed by closing our eyes on them. -- Winston Churchill
x2zulu
commented
9 years ago Hi Dmitry,
Ok, I did not see you listed on the Debian website as a contributor. What do you work on? Can you send me a link to your work? Thanks for sharing.
X2Community.com is better place to work with us. Because we use a lot of different download sites, each with their own issue repository - to many places to manage. We did replace our in-house created images with another image library that is easier, so no worries.
Best, John
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Dmitry Smirnov notifications@github.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 14:07:06 John Roberts wrote:
Yes, we have removed most of these images in a future release.
Thanks, but I'm not sure if removing "most of those images" would be sufficient. How about removing all of them?
What is your relation to Debian?
I am a Debian Developer.
Looks like you work for Odoo CRM/ERP.
No, I was just working on prospective packaging of Odoo for Debian. I did not sign their CLA etc. I was merely forwarding problems I've happened to notice... Same as with X2Engine.
Can you provide more detail on your Debian credentials.
Why? Our development is public, we do not hide anything. You can find all my activity online.
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
P.S. As you can imagine I'm not quite happy about removing my bug reports without a trace... What's wrong with having a public bug tracker on GitHub? The more difficult you make it to communicate the less likely a potential contributor would try to help...
Our difficulties and our dangers will not be removed by closing our eyes on them. -- Winston Churchill
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/X2Engine/X2Engine/issues/42#issuecomment-95742592.
John Roberts X2Engine Inc. Santa Cruz, California USA http://www.x2engine.com Phone: 1-831-222-5333 ext.111 Email: john@x2engine.com Skype: x2engine
onlyjob
commented
9 years ago Hi John,
On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:18:13 John Roberts wrote:
What do you work on? Can you send me a link to your work?
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=onlyjob
There are too many links to send. Why don't you use a search engine?
Why are you curious about my Debian work?
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -- Winston Churchill
x2zulu
commented
9 years ago Thank you, because I run a cluster of custom built Debian servers in a local datacenter. It is the very best OS I believe.
I did not know X2Engine was being included in Debian, sounds great.
X2Engine code base was started five years ago and has been in continuous development by four to five developers. All of the development, IT infrastructure, office, and operational costs of have been funded by X2Engine Inc. Our goal is to be the Debian of CRM.
I know most folks are not crazy about the GPL v3 Affero, but I believe it is best for development teams that spend more the 70% of their time on user interface design and construction. You would be amazed how many people just want to rebrand and sell the app as if they wrote it themselves without any intenton of contributing anything of value in return. I know its ok, and fair, but I not have to like it as the developer of the software. I believe that if our code was 90% backend then I would not care so much.
We did switch out our custom images for an open library two dot releases back, 5.1 but did not take out the old images and restrictive cc license. We are doing that now for 5.7 in the next two weeks.
Thank you for Debian, John
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Dmitry Smirnov notifications@github.com wrote:
Hi John,
On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:18:13 John Roberts wrote:
What do you work on? Can you send me a link to your work?
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=onlyjob
There are too many links to send. Why don't you use a search engine?
Why are you curious about my Debian work?
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -- Winston Churchill
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/X2Engine/X2Engine/issues/42#issuecomment-95747047.
John Roberts X2Engine Inc. Santa Cruz, California USA http://www.x2engine.com Phone: 1-831-222-5333 ext.111 Email: john@x2engine.com Skype: x2engine
onlyjob
commented
9 years ago On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:58:09 John Roberts wrote:
Thank you, because I run a cluster of custom built Debian servers in a local datacenter. It is the very best OS I believe.
Thank you for your kind words. I do share your belief that Debian is the best GNU/Linux distribution.
I did not know X2Engine was being included in Debian, sounds great.
It is not going to be included (yet) primarily because of the bugs I've submitted. As far as I'm aware nobody is working on packaging of X2Engine for Debian.
At the moment X2Engine is not on my list of software to package. FYI I'm not happy with Odoo too so I won't continue its packaging efforts...
X2Engine code base was started five years ago and has been in continuous development by four to five developers. All of the development, IT infrastructure, office, and operational costs of have been funded by X2Engine Inc. Our goal is to be the Debian of CRM.
Great. :) I wish you all the best. IMHO there is a lot you can do to make X2Engine more attractive. Good license/copyright coverage is crucial but also more open development (no bulk commits to GitHub), easy access to bug tracker and less crippled community edition might help.
I know most folks are not crazy about the GPL v3 Affero, but I believe it is best for development teams that spend more the 70% of their time on user interface design and construction.
I agree. AGPL-3 is great and IMHO it is in software's best interests to have a good license to protect and encourage contribution.
You would be amazed how many people just want to rebrand and sell the app as if they wrote it themselves without any intenton of contributing anything of value in return.
Well, isn't that what Ubuntu is doing with Debian? ;) I feel the pain.
I know its ok, and fair, but I not have to like it as the developer of the software. I believe that if our code was 90% backend then I would not care so much.
I think those leeche(r)s always miss something more important -- a collaboration. One of the reasons why I don't like derivatives is because they usually claim a lot of "added value" but in reality they are just disconnected from development and therefore slow down propagation of fixes, productive work on bug tracker, contribution etc... Not to mention giving fair credits to those who did most of the hard work...
We did switch out our custom images for an open library two dot releases back, 5.1 but did not take out the old images and restrictive cc license. We are doing that now for 5.7 in the next two weeks.
Nice. Thanks for doing that. It is important.
Thank you for Debian,
:) Pleasure to read this. Thank you.
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
P.S. please feel free to email directly to me -- I hope it would be more convenient than communicating through GitHub.
x2zulu
commented
9 years ago Hi Dmitry,
Nice. I am happy to help in any way to make packing easier, including developing a Debian package ourselves. I will turn the issue tracker back on.
As a reference Webmin\Virtualmin has an X2Engine packager for Debian deployment. This is what we use for our hosting platform. https://www.virtualmin.com/documentation/install-scripts
When, if you are ready look at this again please feel free to contact me.
John
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Dmitry Smirnov notifications@github.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 16:58:09 John Roberts wrote:
Thank you, because I run a cluster of custom built Debian servers in a local datacenter. It is the very best OS I believe.
Thank you for your kind words. I do share your belief that Debian is the best GNU/Linux distribution.
I did not know X2Engine was being included in Debian, sounds great.
It is not going to be included (yet) primarily because of the bugs I've submitted. As far as I'm aware nobody is working on packaging of X2Engine for Debian.
At the moment X2Engine is not on my list of software to package. FYI I'm not happy with Odoo too so I won't continue its packaging efforts...
X2Engine code base was started five years ago and has been in continuous development by four to five developers. All of the development, IT infrastructure, office, and operational costs of have been funded by X2Engine Inc. Our goal is to be the Debian of CRM.
Great. :) I wish you all the best. IMHO there is a lot you can do to make X2Engine more attractive. Good license/copyright coverage is crucial but also more open development (no bulk commits to GitHub), easy access to bug tracker and less crippled community edition might help.
I know most folks are not crazy about the GPL v3 Affero, but I believe it is best for development teams that spend more the 70% of their time on user interface design and construction.
I agree. AGPL-3 is great and IMHO it is in software's best interests to have a good license to protect and encourage contribution.
You would be amazed how many people just want to rebrand and sell the app as if they wrote it themselves without any intenton of contributing anything of value in return.
Well, isn't that what Ubuntu is doing with Debian? ;) I feel the pain.
I know its ok, and fair, but I not have to like it as the developer of the software. I believe that if our code was 90% backend then I would not care so much.
I think those leeche(r)s always miss something more important -- a collaboration. One of the reasons why I don't like derivatives is because they usually claim a lot of "added value" but in reality they are just disconnected from development and therefore slow down propagation of fixes, productive work on bug tracker, contribution etc... Not to mention giving fair credits to those who did most of the hard work...
We did switch out our custom images for an open library two dot releases back, 5.1 but did not take out the old images and restrictive cc license. We are doing that now for 5.7 in the next two weeks.
Nice. Thanks for doing that. It is important.
Thank you for Debian,
:) Pleasure to read this. Thank you.
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
P.S. please feel free to email directly to me -- I hope it would be more convenient than communicating through GitHub.
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/X2Engine/X2Engine/issues/42#issuecomment-95763727.
John Roberts X2Engine Inc. Santa Cruz, California USA http://www.x2engine.com Phone: 1-831-222-5333 ext.111 Email: john@x2engine.com Skype: x2engine
onlyjob
commented
9 years ago Nice. I am happy to help in any way to make packing easier, including developing a Debian package ourselves.
Even outside Debian, packaging could be helpful for deployment.
I will turn the issue tracker back on.
Thank you. Much appreciated.
When, if you are ready look at this again please feel free to contact me.
I'll probably have another look once new version with removed non-free images is released.
If you need to speed things up I may be available for hire.
Cheers, Dmitry.
x2zulu
commented
9 years ago Hi Dmitry,
Yes I would be interested in funding your work to make it easer to deploy X2Engine on Debian. I agree with you the UI has gotten a bit dense with 5.0. we are working to simplify things again with a large release this summer. I am also ok with all of your work being licensed under an open source license. I have a project underway to build custom Debian based enterprise level deployment images for AmazonAWS and Google Cloud Compute. I have one engineer assigned to this project and his is pretty close to having our AWS auto installer done. I am also open to ideas you may have. Do you do app work?
Regarding budget, I have a small company so many not be able to afford corporate rates. But I believe X2Engine has a very bright future so could be good long term thing if things go well.
I am available for a web chat if you would like to talk more.
Best, John - about me http://www.johnsocean.com/
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 6:43 PM, Dmitry Smirnov notifications@github.com wrote:
Nice. I am happy to help in any way to make packing easier, including developing a Debian package ourselves.
Even outside Debian, packaging could be helpful for deployment.
I will turn the issue tracker back on.
Thank you. Much appreciated.
When, if you are ready look at this again please feel free to contact me.
I'll probably have another look once new version with removed non-free images is released.
If you need to speed things up I may be available for hire.
Cheers, Dmitry.
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/X2Engine/X2Engine/issues/42#issuecomment-95772044.
John Roberts X2Engine Inc. Santa Cruz, California USA http://www.x2engine.com Phone: 1-831-222-5333 ext.111 Email: john@x2engine.com Skype: x2engine
onlyjob
commented
9 years ago On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 19:13:02 John Roberts wrote:
Yes I would be interested in funding your work to make it easer to deploy X2Engine on Debian.
Awesome. :)
I am also ok with all of your work being licensed under an open source license.
It might be a good idea to use the same AGPL-3+ license to keep licensing simple but I'm OK with Expat too (if necessary).
Let's do packaging as per Debian standards to make it suitable to inclusion to Debian officially.
I have a project underway to build custom Debian based enterprise level deployment images for AmazonAWS and Google Cloud Compute. I have one engineer assigned to this project and his is pretty close to having our AWS auto installer done.
Interesting.
I am also open to ideas you may have.
Not at the moment as I have very little experience with Amazon and no experience with Google cloud at all...
Do you do app work?
You mean development? Yes I do but mostly in Perl and Bash. I am illiterate in PHP (although I can read it and make trivial fixes) so I'm not sure how I can be of help.
Regarding budget, I have a small company so many not be able to afford corporate rates. But I believe X2Engine has a very bright future so could be good long term thing if things go well.
I operate small business myself and we always treat Open Source work as
eligible for discounts. :)
How about 25% discount to begin with? I usually charge $80 AUD per hour (plus GST but as international customer you won't be charged GST).
See http://raid6.com.au for rates and other info.
I am available for a web chat if you would like to talk more.
How about email?
John - about me http://www.johnsocean.com/
Gorgeous blog by the way. Great photos. :)
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
P.S. Did you just disable GitHub bug tracker again? I have no secrets to hide...
x2zulu
commented
9 years ago Dmitry, Great! Thank you. My email is john@x2engine.com. I look forward to chatting. John
On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 7:41 PM, Dmitry Smirnov notifications@github.com wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 19:13:02 John Roberts wrote:
Yes I would be interested in funding your work to make it easer to deploy X2Engine on Debian.
Awesome. :)
I am also ok with all of your work being licensed under an open source license.
It might be a good idea to use the same AGPL-3+ license to keep licensing simple but I'm OK with Expat too (if necessary).
Let's do packaging as per Debian standards to make it suitable to inclusion to Debian officially.
I have a project underway to build custom Debian based enterprise level deployment images for AmazonAWS and Google Cloud Compute. I have one engineer assigned to this project and his is pretty close to having our AWS auto installer done.
Interesting.
I am also open to ideas you may have.
Not at the moment as I have very little experience with Amazon and no experience with Google cloud at all...
Do you do app work?
You mean development? Yes I do but mostly in Perl and Bash. I am illiterate in PHP (although I can read it and make trivial fixes) so I'm not sure how I can be of help.
Regarding budget, I have a small company so many not be able to afford corporate rates. But I believe X2Engine has a very bright future so could be good long term thing if things go well.
I operate small business myself and we always treat Open Source work as eligible for discounts. :)
How about 25% discount to begin with? I usually charge $80 AUD per hour (plus GST but as international customer you won't be charged GST).
See http://raid6.com.au for rates and other info.
I am available for a web chat if you would like to talk more.
How about email?
John - about me http://www.johnsocean.com/
Gorgeous blog by the way. Great photos. :)
Cheers, Dmitry Smirnov
P.S. Did you just disable GitHub bug tracker again? I have no secrets to hide...
— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/X2Engine/X2Engine/issues/42#issuecomment-95780012.
John Roberts X2Engine Inc. Santa Cruz, California USA http://www.x2engine.com Phone: 1-831-222-5333 ext.111 Email: john@x2engine.com Skype: x2engine
According to LICENSE.txt files in
x2engine/images/*are licensed under non-free CC-BY-NC-ND-3.0 license prohibiting commercial use and modification. Presence of such files makes the whole source archive non-distributable. Therefore X2Engine is not suitable for inclusion to Debian.Please consider re-licensing those image under free license like CC-BY-SA-3.0 (or higher version). Alternatively those proprietary logos can be removed from source tree.
Let me stress the importance of this issue again: presence of images with non-commercial restriction in source archive makes X2Engine community edition non-free which invalidates the claim that the latter is "free and open source".