"User In Earmuff Mode" ProtoFlux node

[paradoxical-autumn]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.

Currently, you cannot get if a specific user is in earmuff mode easily and I believe that a protoflux node to get this state would be helpful (such as on avatars)

Describe the solution you'd like

A ProtoFlux node which takes a user as input and outputs a boolean for if they are currently in earmuff mode

Describe alternatives you've considered

Using a SettingValueSync<bool, EamuffSettings>, a cloud variable and a facet to get this information outside of userspace. This wouldn't allow for arbitrary access to the setting though.

Additional Context

Ideally, the node should be something like this:

Requesters

paradoxical_autumn (Discord) // paradox19 (IGN)

[Frooxius]

What's the use-cases for this? Why do you want to know if the user is in an earmuff mode?

I'm not sure if this is something that's necessarily good to expose, since it might be something the user wants to keep private(ish).

[paradoxical-autumn]

I was mainly thinking about avatar customisations (such as toggling an effect / mesh) and extra world functionality (such as informing people if a user is on earmuff mode) but I understand your concerns w/ user privacy.

I was mainly looking at VRChat's implementation of earmuff mode and how it's always displayed to everyone on a user's nameplate.

[JackTheFoxOtter]

I somewhat agree with the privacy argument, but then again, I don't think exposing this would be very harmful. Whisper voice mode is also exposed in a similar way.

[Frooxius]

We could do that yeah.

I suppose we could just add a privacy toggle for this too. So you can toggle if the world can know if you're in ear-muff or not, that might give best from both world?

[paradoxical-autumn]

That'd be fine by me!

[Frooxius]

Ok, we'll tackle it that way! Thank you!

[JackTheFoxOtter]

I suppose we could just add a privacy toggle for this too. So you can toggle if the world can know if you're in ear-muff or not, that might give best from both world?

Perhaps, even if it sounds a little excessive. The main point of having an indicator for the whisper bubble is so other people know it's active and can adjust accordingly to the person potentially not hearing people outside of it. I'm not quite sure how much earmuff mode deviates from that.

[paradoxical-autumn]

It sounds excessive

While I agree with this statement @JackTheFoxOtter, having an option to turn off the feature is better than no option at all for people who might not want this shown (such as if they need the feature (like me) but don't want it publicly known).

I'm fine with it as long as you're opted in by default (like how when the "opt out of media metadata" feature was released, everyone had it defaulted to opt in)

And also with the whisper bubble, you can turn that off by editing your avatar so this isn't much different

[JackTheFoxOtter]

I guess it might be more similar to client volume settings than voice modes, yeah. I didn't consider people leaving it on constantly for accessibility reasons.

[JackTheFoxOtter]

And also with the whisper bubble, you can turn that off by editing your avatar so this isn't much different

Well, no, because you can't change what your voice mode reports as for the ProtoFlux node / user inspector.

[paradoxical-autumn]

Well, no, because you can't change what your voice mode reports as for the ProtoFlux nodes / user inspector.

That's true, I completely forgot about how that node isn't just "Is muted"

[Frooxius]

The difference here is that whisper bubble is something that's part of the "in-world" voice communication mechanism. It's temporary and doesn't transfer from world to world or persist.

Earmuff mode is global and persistent accessibility setting, so I'm not too sure if it's something users necessarily want to have exposed about themselves.

My thinking about it is more along terms of accessibility settings. Say when we introduce "Photosensitive" setting, which will disable certain effects - but do it in a way that's not detectable. That might also be something that users might not want to have exposed about themselves.

[shiftyscales]

Personally I don't think I'd want to see this state exposed at all. Fundamentally- it's meant to be an accessibility setting that a user tunes to their own personal comfort.

Other users have no need to know who is using earmuff mode, nor how it is configured. It is a personal preference like with the volume levels which are also not exposed in any capacity.

If a user wishes to globalize this value, there are other existing mechanisms they could use to do so, but I don't think this should be something we should support as an official feature, even if we include an opt-in setting.

[Frooxius]

With the proposed solution, if you wish to not expose this value for yourself, you'll have that option.

There are always ways to expose things manually, but it requires additional effort and complexity from the user. If this is something that's common enough, it might be worth adding (e.g. similarly how you can query the voice status).

[shiftyscales]

Per your above example though around whisper bubbles- voice status is something that applies directly to worldspace, as worldspace is responsible for controlling/limiting the available voice modes based on the world's configuration, @Frooxius. As such they aren't directly comparable.

At the least, if it were added, it should be opt-in (disabled by default) rather than opt-out. Leave it to the user to choose to share if they are making use of accessibility features rather than publishing that info publicly by default.

[paradoxical-autumn]

Shifty raises a good point and I'm gonna say that I actually believe that it should be opt-in, so no one is randomly thrust into a state they're not comfortable with.

[Frooxius]

@shiftyscales Yes, there's differences, but I think that's kind of missing the point.

There is clearly interest in using this to display on avatar and such in this - same way people want to display muted status or dash. Therefore in that regard it is comparable.

I understand that you are not interested in sharing this with the world, but @paradoxical-autumn clearly is.

[paradoxical-autumn]

Another reason why I think this is a helpful feature is as I've had multiple people think I'm ignoring them when in actuality I can't hear them due to having the mode enabled

[Azavit]

Opt In: means the value is nearly useless if you aren't the one wanting it to be set up and will cause confusion when a person tries to get it working and it just fails as you may not be focused on the settings menu as much when building with Protoflux. Also means 90% of people won't check the option (for every button you need to press you loose 90% of the people) even if they don't care about others knowing about it.

Opt Out: The person will already be in the settings menu and will already be thinking "hey I don't want this transmitted." and opts out intentionally and will most likely remember that "yes I opted out, that's why this node doesn't work" vs others who may not have even noticed the setting to opt in.

[paradoxical-autumn]

I feel like this issue is going to go round in circles of "should it be opt-out or opt-in?" as there are valid arguments for both sides.

Opt-out pros:

• It'll automatically work for everyone
• People can turn it off Opt-out cons:
• People might not realise that this feature released and be thrust into a state of discomfort

Opt-in pros:

• Users don't have to worry about this change as their privacy is respected
• Anyone who doesn't understand what this setting does can just leave it on default without worrying about their privacy Opt-in cons:
• 90% of people won't know about this existing and be confused as to how it works for <10% of people
• The node is basically useless for arbitrary access as it won't work 90% of the time

Conclusion

This feature request will need more feedback from the community to find out how many people want it to be shown and how many people want it to be hidden

If you've made it this far, all I can ask is that you please leave your feedback on this. You don't need to write an essay, just a simple "I want this to be opt-out" or "I want this to be opt-in". Thank you!

[Frooxius]

I think it depends a bit on use cases. From the sound of it, most of the time people will want to setup their avatar with some indicator to show this, rather than other users detecting if someone is in earmuff.

If those are the main cases, then the burden to opt-in should be on the user setting up their avatar - it's up to them to read up on the documentation on the node and see how it works, since they're the ones putting effort to setup something.

[quellus]

A bit late to the party, but my use case is also an indicator. I'd like to be able to indicate to others to avoid people thinking I'm ignoring them when I just can't hear them.